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I'm an idiot...

Pianimo

Pianimo

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
536
Location
UK
...or, at least, I feel like one today. :( I had an appointment with the hygienist - my second of four - and it went ok. No, actually, it went really well! At least, she thought so, and I know she's right. I mean, major positives are:
  • I kept my nerves under control, didn't cry/shake etc - I felt really anxious, but I managed to act mostly like a 'normal' patient.
  • Thanks to the gel; her stopping very frequently so I could swallow/'recover' (and even more often if I asked); suction; her manner; and, at one point me pushing her hand away! lol - I didn't gag at all. Came close yes, but never fully did.
  • She was really pleased with my teeth/gums and how I've been taking care of them - said it's like a different mouth from the one she first saw! The parts of my gums which were 5 are now all 3 (can't remember what this means, but I know it's good!). I know my mouth is so much healthier, and that's what I want. (It also looks better, although I still don't want to see it more than I have to! lol)
  • She was really gentle, friendly and accommodating. I let her do quite a bit, because she's made it clear she'll do all she can to avoid me feeling any pain or discomfort, and to keep me from gagging, and that she'll stop as soon as I ask, so I trusted her to try whatever she thought I might manage.
  • She kept telling me how well I was doing, to let her do so much (normal stuff, but more than she'd thought I'd manage), and she wasn't being patronising, but genuinely was complimenting me. Even though I did sometimes ask her to stop, or said I'd rather leave something until next time when she asked me, not to mention making strange requests (e.g. I needed her and the nurse to look away while I rinsed and spat...ugh, I hate even saying the word!...all part of my mouth phobia issues), she didn't mind at all, and and I know she's really happy with how the appointments are going.
You know what, this is one of the reasons for writing this post, because I so needed to see all that spelt out for myself. The thing is, my thinking on the way home wasn't any of that. But more like this:
  • That went fine. Obviously - it's just a hygiene appointment, and it went fine last time. So why were you so nervous beforehand, ill and everything (IBS flare-up), and so tense all the way through? At one point, when things were going fine, you nearly cried just from the tension. What an idiot.
  • You didn't gag. So it's not really a problem and you're being silly. And since you didn't gag today, she'll think you were making it all up and just making a fuss. [Seriously, at the end I was more than half wishing I'd gag just once, so she'd know I'm not just making it all up!!!]
  • You still didn't let her do the insides of the teeth at the back. So, the same old problem hasn't gone away, you've just avoided it. [Yep, I realise this completely contradicts the previous point!] What if you can never let her? Or, next time, you're going to gag like mad and throw up. Better start worrying now...
  • She's a wonderful hygienist, just what you'd wanted but hadn't dared to think possible. You're starting to really trust and feel befriended by her. But you're leaving. So, it's actually bad if you build a good realtionship with her. Because then it will be harder to leave, and no-one else will ever be as good. So really, two more great appointments with this great person would be a bad thing.
  • You're feeling like this, after a 'good' appointment. So (a) every dental appointment you ever go to is going to leave you feeling dreadful, and (b) once more, you're an idiot.
Argh! lol :rolleyes: Honestly, how can I turn a postive appointment into such a bad experience?! I was exhausted when I got in, from the ordeal of it, and just felt really deflated. I felt better after a nap, but still not exactly happy. I do still have other major stresses in my life, and I know my whole mood is affected by that. But I just want to be able to see the positives, and really believe them, instead of the negative spin my mind seems to immediately put on things (as evidenced in my previous thread too).

Is this just me?? Or can anyone relate? There seem to be some of you out there who feel ok/positive even about going to the dentist now. How/when did things change for you? Is there hope for me yet?!

Thanks for reading. :)
 
LOL there's hope for you....if you stay with her....how much more can she cost than elsewhere? This is a priority for you....give up something else.
NHS dentists don't tend to give gum issues a high priority where prevention is concerned..that's the problem. If you have ongoing periodontal issues you need to 'make friends with a hygienist' and get the care you need.

The rest is typical of the phobia talking though...so it sounds like you did really really well and you should be proud :jump::party:.
 
Congratulations Pianimo :jump: - you did so well!! And fantastic news about the 5 to 3 change (that is very good indeed).

In my limited experience, the people who tend to be the most self-critical are those who are highly aware of and in touch with their own emotions - which can be both a blessing and a curse! My advice would be to cut yourself some slack (probably easier said that done!) and celebrate your success :sleepyjuice:

(P.S. agree with Brit re. hanging onto your hygienist, even if you decide to switch dentists - she sounds like a real find :)!)
 
Pianomo,

No, you are not alone in your thinking!! I just found out last night, that when my friend took me home from my sedation dental appt--of which I have no memory---that all the way home, I asked her--"did I say this right", "did I do that right?" I was completely drugged and asking questions like that!

Anyway, forget about it---and let each time you go be a new experience...you don't need to prove your fear!! You will find that out that when you finally get to the point when you really aren't experiencing much fear, then you will have to CONVINCE them that you are really not afraid...weird how that works!!

I went to my dentist yesterday and I love her and am not afraid at all now--I cant wait to go..I am having work done on April 26th (yippee--I get to be mommed--:))...she scheduled extra time "just in case" I need the full sedation treatment again...and I'm trying to tell her that I WONT...and she still isnt hearing me!!! WEIRD...

I guess all of us dental phobes think the same!!! YOU ARE NOT ALONE, AND YOU ARE DEFINITELY NOT AN IDIOT...If you're an idiot, then we all are....!!:-*
 
Thanks guys. :)

K-Bird - it's nice to know I'm not the only one! And what you said - taking each time as a new experience - really makes sense. It's also encouraging that you've gone from scared to wanting to go...I can't imagine that, but then I wouldn't have imagined managing all I have so far either! But stories like yours on here remind me that it's all worth it. So thank you. ;D

Letsconnect - thank you. :) I think your assessment is right; it seems true for me, anyway. It all means that in all my dental visits so far, I can't bring myself yet to thinking I've done well - I can see objectively that an appointment went well not badly, but in my head it's the dentist/hygienist who has done well, in dealing with me, whereas all I contributed was causing the problem in the first place! Now they've done nothing to make me feel they think that way (quite the opposite), but that's how I naturally see it. Which leaves me in these ridiculous scenarios where I feel guilty if I do struggle, because I'm being a burden etc, and guilty if I don't, because they'll think I've been making a big fuss over nothing! :rolleyes: But you're right, I need to try to unlearn this thinking, and remind myself that I HAVE achieved something...really...(maybe it'll sink in soon!) :party:

Brit - Oh, I so wish I could stay with her! :-* :( I've kept going back to trying to find a way round it (for her and/or D3). But honestly, it's just not financially viable for me to pay this practice's prices longterm, even just for her. In reality, I can't really afford private prices at all. But I think you're right that there are certain things NHS practices are less likely to offer/prioritise, plus I feel I need to be able to see the same person every time. But the only feasible private option I could budget for is to go on a lower-priced Denplan/equivalent, which obviously would include hygienist's appointments, and so I'd need to see someone at the same practice as my yet-to-be-found D4. (Fwiw, the cheapest Denplan at P2 is not that cheap, and includes only 1 check-up and 1 hygiene appointment a year - which to me seems a rather useless plan anyway! :rolleyes:)

I do know that my current hygienist works at a few practices, so I've been trying to find out where, in the hope that I can go on seeing her but at a price I can afford!!! I found one place via google, but it's quite far away, and I don't think they any of their dentists offer sedation. It's on my list of palces to investigate though. I don't know how to find the other/s...I suppose it's not really ethical to just ask her?! :innocent:
 
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There's likely a clause in her contract which prevents her from poaching customers, so you might be putting her in an awkward position by asking her. You could try to ask her on the quiet though, and hope for a hint (I'm almost certain that she wouldn't tell you outright). Or chat about whether she works in other towns, and how she finds the commuting...

I'm curious now as to the price differential ;D... (drop me a PM if you like)
 
Ok...finally got some time to answer your question! (Been sooo busy, sorry!) Here's an idea of prices in my my area. I've looked up numerous practices within a 15ish mile radius of where I live. Not all listed their fees, or listed them for everything, but I've now got a pretty good feel for what is being charged...and how much it varies! I don't want to give exact prices in case it makes the practice names more 'traceable', but I wanted to answer publicly to allow anyone else who wants to to weigh in on whether my definitions of 'expensive' and 'reasonable' are, well, reasonable!

So, here's a list of some of the varying prices for different treatments etc, rounded to the nearest £5 (It's a sample of fees - I don't need all these things!):
  • 'Comprehensive'/new patient exam/evaluation - £30 / £40 / £70 / £100
  • Routine exam - £25 / £30 / £40 / £50
  • Hygiene (shortest appointment) - £25 / /£35 / £40
  • Full mouth x-rays - £25 / £55
  • Emergency appointment - £40 / £80
  • RCT - (from) £135 / £225 / £250 / £400
  • Extraction - (from) £40 / £50 / £90
  • Amalgam filling - (from) £40 /£45
  • Composite filling - (from) £60 /£80
  • Crown - (from) £275 / £300 / £350 / £420
  • Bridge - (from) £275 / £400 / £420
  • Implant - (from) £1950 / £2100
  • IV Sedation - £85 / £320 :)o)
Now, P2 isn't the most expensive for everything, but it is for most things, and the difference is sometimes hundreds of pounds. The sedation differential is the most shocking to me (although for some reason I wasn't charged as much as is stated on their price list....actually, I think this might've been because D3 did the sedation and the dentistry, whereas I was told that if I needed the endodontist to treat me, I would have to pay for him AND D3 to be there. The price I was charged was still certainly closer to the upper than the lower price though!)

But my biggest question really is - how can there be such HUGE differences in prices?!?!?! I mean, first off, I know fillings/RCT etc will vary in price due to the size etc, but I presume that the 'from' prices in every practice will begin with the fee for the smallest type, so should still be comparable. I also realise that some variation will be because the term "first appointment', for example, may mean something different from one place to another, in terms of length and/or content. And of course 'better' dentists are entitled to charge more. But even so, I just had no idea that the variation could be so great. Or why. And I don't know what price is 'normal' or acceptable. :confused: Can anyone weigh in here??

Anyway, the most important thing to me is the price of their Denplan/equivalent. At most of the practices near me, Denplan seems to cost roughly £10-£13 per month (rounded to nearest 50p, most are around £11), for 2 check-ups, 2-4 hygiene appointments, 20% off treatment, emergency appointments, plus insurance, holiday cover etc.

P2 charges £13.50 per month (rounded), for 1 check-up, 1 hygiene appointment, and 10% off a limited selection of treatment, (plus insurance etc). In order to recieve the 2+2 appointments that everywhere else offers, I'd have to pay £23 per month (rounded)!! That's obviously a significant difference, more than double most other places, which amounts to roughly £150 more per year (and you still get less for it than at most other practices). I suppose that may not seem much to some people, but for me it's just not a difference I'm willing or able to pay. And that's not even considering the treatment and sedation prices: as and when I do need treatment, that differential would soon go way up into the hundreds, or even higher - which is completely impossible for me to even begin to afford.

I've also tried to work out various PAYG options so I could stay at least with my hygienist. But I really need to be on a Denplan type scheme somwhere in order to afford the regular appointments, plus any treatment I may need (20% discount makes a big difference when there are sedation costs involved). Even this is really pushing it for my budget, but I feel I need a level of attention and continuity that I'm less likely to be able to receive on the NHS - plus virtually no dentists in my area have NHS spaces. I certainly can't afford to be paying for hygiene appointments at P2 on top of Denplan elsewhere; and if I PAYGed for a dentist at one place as well as my hygienist at P2, it would at least the same, probably more (depending on where P3 turns out to be) over a year as joining Denplan, but without the discount on treatment, emergency cover, or anything else - making it, again, not feasible.

So, no matter how hard I try to find a way, I simply can't do it. :(

Anyway, sorry this is long...again. :rolleyes: But I hope it answers your question, letsconnect! What do you think???
 
I cant really relate but i must say congrats, you have come far just remember keep moving forward :cheers::cheers:
 
Well, at least we now know that dentists cannot be accused of price-fixing ;D.

The figures you have quoted do seem to be similar to other parts of the UK (both the bottom and the top ones).

The question is
* whether you can afford to pay £23 a month (which would be what, roughly £5 to £5.50 a week?) and
* how much keeping this hygienist is worth to you, and if there are other things you could give up (or part-time jobs you could do) to be able to afford this.

It appears that it's the cost of IV sedation though which is messing up what should be a simple equation?
 
Mikey Boy - Thank you. :)

letsconnect - Simple answer, no, I can't afford it. :( I can barely budget for the £11/month, let alone £23. (I don't want to share details on here, but my current situation is such that I have an extremely limited budget, and no capacity to increase it, at least for a while.) I really should be saying private is too expensive full stop, and choosing NHS; I'm trying not to do that, but P2 is evidently a step too far.

The sedation is certainly a major factor, but it's also the whole Denplan package. P2 seem to offer the absolute bare minimum, even at the higher price - I mean, every other place would give me everything I need for £11ish, whereas as they are asking me to pay double to receive less. I wouldn't even think about doing that in any other sphere of life, so I struggle to see that it would make any sense to do it for the dentist either...even if I could afford it! On top of this, for any treatment I need, not only would it be extremely expensive to start with, but I'd get a smaller discount, offered across a smaller range of treamtment - meaning the price difference would be even wider in practice.

So, over the years, it's not going to just be an extra £12 a month, but a difference of hundreds, and before long thousands, of pounds! That's still absolutely staggering to me - it's helpful to know that these differentials are the same across the UK, but I still can't get my head round the idea that the difference can be that great! :confused:

This might be an obvious question, but why are there such big differences in price? Is it really as simple as the cheaper ones are not as good as the expensive ones? Does that mean I'm consigned to bad/uncaring dentistry by choosing a cheaper practice??? :( I'm TERRIFIED of this being true! But then, I've read stories on here of good, helpful dentists charging way less than mine. Plus, P2 can't be the only good practice round here...in fact, I know it isn't, because I really liked P1, and while they're not the cheapest I've found, they're certainly cheaper than P2. So surely it can't be this simple??? :confused: I really hope not...:cry:

[Edit: I'm gradually answering my own question... (the second one, that is. Still no idea about the first!)
  • I know D3 used to work at one of the cheaper places I've looked at, and I'm sure she didn't suddenly become nice when she arrived at P2!!!
  • My hygienist also works at at least 2 other places, and I've found one of them, and whilst I haven't seen a price list, I'm pretty sure from what I know that it won't charge the same prices as P2. So while she is worth lots, she can be 'had' for less! :) Hence the same could be true of others....hopefully...
  • All good, caring dentists must start somewhere. And when they're starting out, presumably they'll be at the the smaller/cheaper places.
Well, I'm still terrified at the thought of trying to find a new practice, and not being able to find anyone who'll be kind to me, let alone living up to the expectations I now have thanks to D3 and H1. But I'm starting think there's a least a little reason to hope...I mean, I guess you never know - I might find someone even better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D]
 
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It's been a while since I posted - took a while to fish this thread out! But, in case anyone's interested, update ahoy... (Try the bits in bold for the abridged version!)

Today was a happy dental day! :) Resons being:

  1. I had my last hygiene appointment. So, minus the TBC tooth, that's the end of my treatment. I've (ok, nearly!) done it! :party:
  2. My hygienist (H) is really happy with my teeth and how I'm looking after them. My gums are now completely fine and there was no build up on my teeth at all since my last appointment. So, that one tooth aside, it seems I've now reached my healthy mouth goal. :yay:
  3. I was 'fine' today. Not 'normal' (obviously my mouth issues, gag reflex etc are still there), but as normal as she needed me to be, and I felt completely ok with her. So, I know she was just cleaning etc, and I know it was only ok due to her doing some things differently than with other patients - and being so nice! - but the result is that I had an appointment, not an ordeal. Which four months ago I would've said was an impossibility.
  4. In fact, last night, I realised I was actually more nervous about what I was going to say to H about leaving (should I tell her when I haven't told D3 yet? Will she be offended if I tell her P2 is too expensive for me? Should I give her thank you card or would that be weird? Should I admit I googled her trying to find her other practices?! etc) than I was about going! The anxiety is still there - and a proper treatment appointment would be a very different matter - but still, I was thinking about going into a dentists without dreading it...even sort of not minding it...even, a part of me, looking forward to seeing her...who'da thought?!?!
  5. When I did explain my situation to her (not going back to P1/D1 as I'd like all my future care/treatment in one place, wanting to stay at P2 but can't afford it, looking for P3/D4/H2, googling H to try and stay with her at a price I can afford!... etc) she was really lovely about all of it, and completely understanding about my position. She suggested asking D3 at my review appointment (next month), as she might be able to recommend someone/somewhere good for sedation. And...
  6. She mentioned that D3 does still work at that practice on my shortlist with the out of date website!! So, whilst it seems final that there's no way to stay with H (:cry:), I may yet be able to keep being seen by D3! It's just a glimmer of hope, as from what H was saying it seems like D3 works at 3/4 practices, so I don't know how much she's at this practice or whether she can take on new patients etc. But hey, at least it's a possibility!
  7. I know she's not a dentist, but H also allayed my fears about the 'ticking bomb' of my temporary filling. It's really been weighing heavy on my mind because I want be as settled as possible at a new practice - at least to have chosen one! - before I have to have any major treatment, but until I'm under intense pressure to meet my new, extended submission date, and have no spare time to go dentist shopping until after then. So I've been terrified the filling might fail at any minute, and getting stressed about what I'd do then, but when I mentioned this to H she didn't think it was likely. So I feel I can legitimately (try to) leave all thoughts and decisions about the tooth and the future P3 until I have the time to deal with them.
All in all, I left with a very big smile on my face! :)

Well, except for one thing:


  1. I'm going to miss H! It's so weird to think/say that. But she's been really instrumental in helping me, and I like her as a person too. And so, I'm actually sad that today was my last appointment with her! Fwiw, although I didn't take a card today, I've decided I am going to write ones to her and D3. I think they're worth them, H especially. H2 is going to have an awful lot to live up to...
Oh dear, sorry - long again...at least you know what to expect from me by now! :redface: :p
And now, it's :sleep: time for me and my newly-declared healthy mouth! ;D
 
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Congrats on reaching your goal. :)

And I know how you feel, I'm gonna miss my nice dental student when we're done. She's been nothing short of amazing and ultra-patient. I'm hoping she sets up a practice within driving distance of me when she's out of school. She handled my initial phobia like a professional.

Well I get to see her three more times, maybe I should get a pic to remember these days fondly. ;)
 
Well, that was short-lived! Right on cue, that practice have updated their website, and it says that D3 only does her specialist work there - i.e. not general dentistry. And I found her other practices, but I think they're too far away. So, I'm back to losing both of them (D3 and H). :cry: It's silly, because it was only a vague hope anyway, but judging by how I feel now, apparently this was a major contributor to yesterday's good mood. Bummer. :(

Knightsaber - thanks. :)
Your student sounds great. You should make her a deal - she sets up practice near you, and you'll come along yourself, bring a few friends, post positive reviews all over the internet, maybe even pose with your soon-to-be gleaming new smile for a poster - first new patients guaranteed! lol
But yeah, nice dental people make such a difference, don't they? Hope I can find some more...
 
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Just occurred to me - I think that D3 brought SN (the sedation nurse who really helped me in my first treatment) from one of her too-far-away practices (which are in different towns, but near each other, and they seem to share dentists). Not that this realisation actually changes anything mind you, just caused me to look again at their practice wesbites and wish they were nearer! lol :rolleyes: And then wonder, how far is too far????
 
I take a flight home and then I drive (well my hub drives me so I can take happy pills) 2 1/2 hours for my dental work, but I keep thinking after the big stuff is done, I'll need to find a dentist closer to home, but then again what's a nice drive twice a year (if I ever get to a 6 month recall) For me trust is priceless and because I travel for a living, the distance seems like no big deal.
 
And then wonder, how far is too far????
I personally would go a considerable distance to keep the right dentist and sod the expense but seeing as you have discounted her and the good hygienist purely on cost grounds already at the nearby location - you have to seriously factor in the extra travel costs into your decision.
It could be just as cheap to see her at the nearby practice as it is to see her at the cheaper far away one once you have factored in the travel cost.
Also where will she ultimately be available - at which practice?
 
Thanks for the input guys - really helpful food for thought.

RP - wow, that certainly puts my idea of 'far away' into prespective! Can I ask, what do your dentist/other people think about you travelling so far? I was worried I might weird my dentist out!

Brit - I hadn't even thought about travel costs, but you're right. I need to factor that in too - thanks for the reminder! It also made me realise I don't even know how much those practices charge anyway; it's unlikely to be as much as P2, as they're the very top end, but I don't know any prices. And yes, I don't even know if D3's taking on patients there, although the (limited) websites do seem to suggest all the dentists are 'available'.

Fwiw, P1 is in my town, P2 is about 12 miles/25 minutes away (by car), and these other practices are roughly 45 miles/1 hour and 50 miles/ 70 minutes away. Which I guess is really not excessively far in the grand scheme of things! On the other hand, I already thought P2 was a bit far away (!); and, when compiling my short(ish)list, I felt 'abnormal' for just searching within about a 15 mile / 30 minute radius, as most people I know just go to their local/nearest place! The fact that I need someone to drive me (always will when I'm sedated, and do for every appointment at the minute since I don't drive! Due to learn soon...) also means I'm particularly hesitant to drag them further afield.

But, then, the thought of treatment with D3 and SN remains tempting... If H were there too, I'd probably be considering a move! lol
 
I think it feeds his ego......I'm kind of infamous at the practice- (imagine that) and it will be a year in July that I started going there. He has some unique skills I was looking for. Usually I hold it against him "I didn't drive 2 1/2 hours for.................." and he succumbs:meanie:
 

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