Here we go again...

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

OOOOWWWWWWWWWW!!!!

Seriously, I'm in so much pain. I had some pain on Wednesday after the appointment, then it's been basically constant since yesterday morning - I'm taking painkillers every four hours (alternating paracetamol and ibuprofen so that I don't take more than the recommended dose of either), but they're barely taking the edge off. I only managed three hours sleep. And I've woken up with my cheek really swollen and tingly.

I've just emailed the dental practice to see if they can suggest/do anything. Hope they reply soon (and don't just say to give it a few days!) because I can't take much more of this!

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

I don't think you should be left with this much pain. I hope you managed to see the dentist today and get some relief. Try a hot water bottle wrapped in a towel or a heat pack. I don't think this is a cure I hope it may help.

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

Thanks Carole. I'd wondered how you could do something like a heat pad on your face - I hadn't thought of a hot water bottle, so I may do that. I found that drinking hot drinks helped, which is presumably the same effect. When I couldn't eat this morning, I was sipping hot milk and trying to make it last as long as possible! lol

Anyway, the practice called me, and firstly said pain in the first 48 hours was to be expected, and asked (but kindly) if I thought I could last a few days. When I explained how bad it was, they said to come in, and although my dentist had a full day of patients, he'd fit me in somewhere.

The pain actually got a bit better as I was getting ready/on my way there, and felt mangeable for the first time since it started! So I felt a bit embarassed being there and interrupting his timetable. But he was fine with me - he explained why it was hurting, and didn't make me feel bad about contacting them or taking up his time. So he's growing on me! He prescribed me antibiotics, so hopefully they will help, because the pain's back to its old, throbbing ways now!

I also asked him about having sedation at my next appointment, and he said it was up to me; but, after I said I thought I should have it, he then said he agreed. I like that he didn't push it - since it is an expense - but I was also encouraged that he could see I need it.

I'm still nervous about going - I was nervous just for him having a look today - and I'm still not sure of him, but I'm feeling better about it. And it means I don't have to worry about how to contact him now...I guess at least that's something good that's come from this awful pain!

Does anyone know how long the antibiotics would normally take to work? I've got 7 days' worth.

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

You should get some relieve in 2 to 3 days but take the full amount of tablets. I find also that the hot water bottle covering your ear as well as your cheek does something. It's as if heat on your ear gets through to your mouth somehow better. I don't know how it works but it does, I have even at times slept with my face on the bottle.
I think you have found yourself a very good dentist, he's a keeper, what a kind man. The receptionist sound very nice too.
Sounds like you have a bit of infection there with him giving you antibiotics, warm salt water rinses will help a lot too. As often as you can and as warm as you can stand as well.
I hope you feel better soon. Keep us posted on here if and when you can. All the best for the next few days, and with the rest of your treatment.

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

It takes time to build a relationship of trust, I've never been able to just walk in a dentists office and instantly trust. Sounds like he was very repsonsive to you being in pain. I never hesitate to contact my dentist now, no matter trivial or not. Don't be afraid to ask someone to hold your hand, I did that and the DA was surprised (we had some issues, she and I) but said sure as I tried to get through the drill without sedation, it helped a lot.

Anyway, If you have pulpitis it can take the whole week to make it feel better........but should get a bit better each day.

I would try ice to reduce inflammation before heat. Sometimes that hot water bottle can draw an infection into the soft tissue spread the infection and cause cellulitis.

rp

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

Well, it's been quite day!

First, to bring you up to speed: the antiobiotics worked and the pain and swelling went away.

Then I had a new problem - a fair-sized chunk of the temporary filling came out on Friday leaving a hole in the side of my tooth. On Saturday I emailed the practice, after holding off for a while because I was nervous about it due to having been in touch once already, in case they thought I was being wimpy/demanding etc. (More details on my thead in the dentistry questions section - Dr. Daniel replied and said I was right to contact them, so I plucked up courage and did it.)

The practice isn't open weekends so they called me back today. The receptionist told me that my dentist said it was fine to leave the hole until my appointment next week, as long as I "keep the area clean". I said I didn't know how to do that, because even though I was chewing only on the other side, because of where the hole is (on the inside) I still couldn't stop food going near/in it. And beyond my usual brushing/flossing etc, I couldn't think what other 'cleaning' I could do - surely I shouldn't be sticking something in the hole?! She didn't really answer any of that, but she said I could bring my next appointment forward to Thursday, where there'd been a cancellation. I had to say no, though, because I can't be sedated since I'm working later that day. She then said if I wanted, she'd still book me in that slot, but just to have the temp redone.

I agreed to that, hung up...and burst into tears! Almost immediately I was talking myself into cancelling, because the impression she'd given was that my dentist thought nothing needed doing, and she'd given me the appointment just to satisfy/placate me. So, I felt stupid for contacting them, and scared/embarassed about facing my dentist in case he thought that too. Also, I wasn't sure it was worth puting myself through the ordeal of the appointment (I was very scared about it) just for the sake of a few days difference, especially if my dentist didn't think it mattered. On the other hand, I was still concerned that leaving the centre of my tooth exposed was lessening the chances of the RCT being successful (as Dr Daniel said could happen), and I was upset that they didn't seem at all concerned about it. Basically, I wasn't any less worried after the call; I was more worried, I was just now embarrassed about being worried too!

So, I came to write a post on here, asking for advice on what I should do, and I was just about to post it when the phone rang....and it was the receptionist calling me back to say she'd spoke to my dentist again, and he'd said if I'm coming just to have the hole filled, would I like to come tomorrow? I had to juggle some things with work, but I was able to rearrange so I can go.

So I agreed, hung up....and immediately felt ridiculously relieved and happier! It really is a bit daft, since it's only a difference of two days! However, it feels like a much bigger difference to me, not just because it means I'm getting it sorted more quickly, but also because I now feel more like he's seeing me as soon as he can, rather than just reluctantly/by chance from a cancellation. I still don't know if he's doing it because he thinks it's a good idea for the tooth, or just because he knows it's bothering me (which I suppose is still a good thing, but it would make me feel very embarassed/silly/burdensome), but eitherway it suggests he does actually care and wants to help me.

So, for a while I was a happy bunny.

Then, I remembered....I'm going to the dentist tomorrow!!! I mean, I deliberately booked myself an extra appointment - what was I thinking?! lol Seriously, I know it's a small procedure; I've had it done once before (it's the only treatment I let D3 do to me without sedation!). But it's a huge deal for me - to have anything done unsedated, and to let D4, who I'm not sure of yet, be the one to do it. I feel stupid for being so scared about something so insignificant, but I can't help it.

I guess this is one of those 'be careful what you wish for' moments!

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I'm feeling bad for not participating in your thread for a while. You've been in my thoughts.
I'm so glad you're getting in so quick...+points to your dentist for doing that for you. It's important to YOU, so don't feel wimpy. Sounds like you have a real advocate in your dentist. He's paying attention to YOU and knew what you needed.
I'll be sending hugs across the pond to you. You'll be fine, I'm certain.
Just let the time pass and get thee happy again, dear friend.
Wine glass raised to you!!!!!

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So I'm posting to you while you're posting to me...this is the beauty of this forum!
I'm here for you, and I thank you for being here for me. We're both going to do great.

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Can I yell at you to stop overthinking everything..................?!?

Your dentist sounds like one of the good ones, I email mine all the time and he says "let's see you ASAP" meaning to me ut ohhhhhhhh or "we will take a look next time you are in" , meaning stop worrying so much.

you just let him know what you are worried about and let them decide to see you now or later, period, end of story...but trying to hash through the what to filter is not a good idea..........basically what I am saying is, let him be the doctor and you be the patient.

rp

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

As always, the truly smart lady says the wisest words!

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mghstl - thank you. Never mind about feeling bad, I just value your participation when it comes!

RP - I agree about the doctor/patient thing - that's what I want. But I have to trust someone first. As I said to Brit in another thread, what I want most is to find people (dentists, doctors, nurses...) whom I feel safe with, and absolutely trust to have my best interests at heart, so that I can feel able to follow any advice they give me and, where possible, just let them make decisions for me. I have had and do have this relationship with some medical/dental people, and sometimes I've felt like this from the first appointment; with others it's taken time for that trust to build and be earned. And with some it just doesn't happen at all. I've met this guy three times now and so far, rightly or wrongly, I'm struggling with trusting and feeling safe with him - and generally with feeling happy at this new place. I desperately want to, but I'm finding it difficult.

With this particular situation...the initial 'pre-filtering' was because I'm afraid of gaining a reputation with the practice for making a fuss all the time, and I didn't want for them to be annoyed with me - or to become the girl who cried wolf! I think I'd find it easier if I was emailing him direct (I did with my old dentist), but every email goes to the general practice address, so presumably is read by whichever receptionist happens to open it - which basically means I'm emailing a stranger each time, and that's hard for me. To adopt the stance you've said, I need to feel comfortable/safe to ask any question and know I won't be judged; and I don't even feel like that with my dentist himself yet, let alone when I've no idea who'll be reading it!

Also, when Dr. Daniel replied to me on here, I believed (still do!) what he said. Basically, at the moment I trust him more than I do my dentist. So when they gave seemingly conflicting answers, I didn't feel able just to accept what my dentist said. But it also really upsets me that I couldn't. Hence all the tears.

Anyway, don't know if I've explained myself very well there. Hope at least some of it made sense...

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

I love Dr Daniel, have met him through skype and he would be the first to tell you he can't diagnose over the internet, none of them can. There is a danger in that especially if it becomes a filter or substitue for you and your dentist. Only your dentist knows whats left insdie that tooth/mouth.

I understand the trust thing, remember I went through three dentists and two surgeons, before finding the right team, but my words to you are the about thre stress you are adding worrying about whether you should be calling or contacting them. If you are in pain, or something doesn't seem right, call, but don't add worry because you are worried.

Ask the dentist if he has a direct email, tell him its easier than calling for you. The emil listed on my dentists website was his personal plus there was a general practice one. I was surprised, he answered me himself and then he called me and said well now you have my personal cell......... got a text from him about a question. ...I would never have made it with all the stuff I had done if he wasn't accessible to me..........

rp

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[So, I appear to have written an essay! I doubt many will read a post this long, and don't worry - I don't blame you! I just needed to get all it out, and don't know where else to turn. Hope that's ok.]

Ok, so I'm now a complete mess.

The appointment yesterday basically went ok. I was really scared, but I managed to let him put some more filling over the hole. He was nice again, although I did feel like he thought I was being sillly for worrying etc. I knew he was trying to help me, but yet again I still spent the whole time in there on edge and wanting to escape. As I was leaving, it suddenly dawned on me what the issue is: no reassurance/support/encouragement! During all my appointments, to my memory he's never once said anything like: "Are you nervous about what I'm about to do?" "What's worrying you about today?" "Are you ok?" "How are you feeling?" "You're doing ok." "Well done!" "You've done really well today." "Don't worry." etc.

I can think of examples now - from the awkward silence when he stood and watched me crying at my first appointment, to way he and his nurse reacted to me crying/resisting when they took impressions. I've been aware that that feeling of being safe, able to trust etc wasn't developing over the appointments, but I couldn't figure out why. I kept telling myself that I was being silly - that he has been gentle and friendly, that D3 recommended him, that he's listed as interested in treating anxious/phobic patients, that people on here seem to think well of him based on my own descriptions - and that I just needed to get used to him. But something still didn't feel right, and I think this is why.

I feel totally pathetic for needing his reassurance and help, but I do. (If he regularly treats phobics, you'd think he'd know that? Unless they're all far braver/happier than me!) It's how I'm able to start to overcome my fears. My previous dentist and hygienist were always checking I was ok, so I knew they were concerned about me. They answered every question I had without making me feel dumb for asking, even told me to ask as many as I wanted, so I felt safe knowing if anything bothered me, I could ask. They knew how hard it was for me even to set foot in the building, so they would praise and encourage me with each new battle line crossed. When they told me they thought I'd done amazingly well to manage all I did, I knew they meant it, and were genuinely pleased for me. I still felt embarassed about my fear, but I knew they didn't judge me or look down on me for it, and I knew they really wanted to help me in any way they could. It's not about comparing him to them, because I know I can't go back there. It's just that my experience there means I know it's possible.

With this guy, nice as he is (and he genuinely is!), so far his idea of 'anxiety management' seems to be simply to ignore my fear until it becomes a problem, then sedate me so he can get on with his job! And I admit, it works. I could probably keep getting through appointments with sedation for years to come, but I'd just become entirely dependant on it, and I don't want that...I love sedation, and because of my mouth issues I may always want it for most actual treatment, and I'm ok with that. But I'm not ok with always being terrified and embarrassed, whilst constantly feeling I have to pretend not to be. I know it's my fault and not his - I believe he's been trying to help, and for a 'normal' person he seems to be all the things a good dentist should be. But I'm not normal, and I can't deal with my phobia being the elephant in the room, that he never mentions and so I'm scared to mention it either! So far I've managed to do everything he's asked me to, even if I felt terrified, so he maybe he thinks that means I'm ok? But what I want is not to feel terrified! I want to have a dentist who's willing to take time to help me overcome my struggles and fears, not just leave me to deal with them.

By the time I was leaving P2, I was just reaching a point where I was down to mild anxiety before some appointments, and sometimes even partially looking forward to going and seeing the people. This was more than I'd ever thought possible! Now I'm back to complete terror, feeling sick, shaking etc. I feel like for all I've been through in the past year, all that progress, it's been for nothing because I'm back to square one. You probably all think I'm being stupid because he's been nice to me. But even though this is a 'small' thing, it makes an enormous difference to me.

I'm so worked up over this now - feeling sick and shakey, struggling to eat or sleep, can't think about it without crying. I think it's because until I realised what the problem was, I'd been hoping if I just kept going, eventually I'd start to feel with him like I did with my old dentist. Now, I still desparately want that to happen, but I think it probably won't - I actually like a lot about him, but it's not enough. So I can't cope with the thought of staying with him permanently, but I also feel I'm wrong for thinking that. I feel useless for getting so upset about it, and really guilty for not being happy with him. I've even been holding back from posting on here, afraid of being judged, even though I know people on here aren't like that. I know I'll be ok going on Monday, because I'll be sedated. Beyond that...I think I need to stay at this practice because I'll have the guarantee for this tooth with them, and quite frankly I've don't know of anywhere else to go. I could never deal with telling him any of this, let alone asking about seeing someone else. So I'm stuck, I guess. But I don't want to keep on dreading going to the dentist when I know it doesn't have to be that way!

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

RP - just to actually reply to you, I know you're right about Dr. Daniel, and I know he would never want me to take his over-the-internet word over the word of my dentist.

I think the answer is to find a dentist of my own that I'm not afraid to email and ask. And I'm not sure this dentist is the one. At my appointment yesterday I asked a question, and the way he answered made me feel silly for asking. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but it makes it hard for me to ask things again. (The rest of the situation with him is somewhere amidst my last post!)

Thank you for you advice/help; it means a lot.

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Unfortunately not every dentist has that special something to treat phobics. May just not be a match for your needs. In his defense though, he's not a mind reader and if you won't communicate with him, he has no way of knowing what your needs are.

Also the power to defeat the phobia lies in you, he can't do that for you. Have to get to a place where you can see any dentist..........and be treated without panic. I'm not there either but my point is you are the one in control. We can't control others, only our reaction to them.

rp

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As always, I agree with RP.
Could you maybe "condense" your post, print it out and hand it to your dentist? He does sound like a decent guy, and maybe, in his effort to help phobics, he's just not recognizing YOUR particular "version" of dental phobia.
You're doing so well. I think he just needs a little clarification of how he can help you beat this phobia-beast.
Verbalizing is sooooo tough, because half the time WE don't know what to say!
Keep up the momentum, because you should be proud!!!!!

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

RP said:

Have to get to a place where you can see any dentist..........and be treated without panic.
rp

Click to expand...

Whoooooaaaahhhh! No she doesn't. Once you have had the best, it is very hard to accept anything less and it is unwise (as you very well know RP) to think all dentists are equally technically competent let alone people-skill competent.

Pianimo - I think you should re-adjust your budget and go back to the dental practice you were so happy at.
BUT if that really is not an option then I think just tell him you would appreciate some feedback during appointments....a bit like he would a scared child. He may be staying quiet for fear of saying the wrong thing or for fear of your feeling patronised. RP is right in that you maybe need to explain a few simple things he could do to make you feel better.
Sounds like you want more TLC/chat whenever you are not sedated. This article by Lincoln Hirst has some good tips including 'praise' = 'positive reinforcement'

Some thoughts on language and apprehensive patients


Are you seeing him NHS or privately?

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

Thanks guys. I'm really struggling at the moment, and the support means a lot.

I've thought a lot about talking to him, but I don't know what to say. "Please start saying well done to me and telling me I can ask all the questions I want"?! If he's not someone who naturally says these kind of things, and knows when it's needed, I don't know if there's anything I can do to change that? I guess I kind of figure that if he thought or meant any of those things, he would say them already. And if said it, but only because I asked him to, I'd know he didn't mean it.

I explained about my mouth phobia and my history at my first appointment, so he knows it's all hard for me. And there have been times when I've been obviously upset/scared, and he's still not said or done anything - he just sort of gets on with it...nicely, but without doing anything about - or even acknowledging - how I'm feeling. I understand that he can't read my mind, and I'm sure he has no idea I'm so upset right now. But, again, I don't know how to explain: "I know I may seem to manage ok doing everything you've asked me to, but that's only because my fear of disobeying you has overriden my fear of what obeying you entails!"

Also, I've experienced others (dentist, doctors, nurses etc) doing all this stuff I'm struggling to cope without - reassurance, comfort, support, encouragement - without me ever needing to tell them. Some of it just seems sort of like common sense - if I see someone who's upset I'll give them a hug, ask if they're ok, try to reassure them, see what I can do to help etc. With him, when my anxiety shows I feel like he's at best indifferent, and at worst annoyed. I know it may be all in my head, but I've nothing to convince me otherwise unless he says otherwise. And unfortunately this overrides the niceness. I have thought maybe he doesn't know what to do, but if that's the case, why doesn't he ask?

I suppose my goal was never to be able to see any dentist, but just to find one who I could go and see, and not dread going. I was just about there with D3, and I really want to be there again. I think I could make myself manage to see any (non-abusive etc) dentist who sedated me, but I want more than being able to put up with something I hate - I want to going to the dentist to be a neutral or even positive experience. This is dependant on me trusting my dentist but, for all my issues (and I know there are a lot!), I think I actually trust pretty easily. When someone just looks after me (I don't know how else to put it) and acts as if they genuinely care, I can start to feel safe with them quite quickly. But I've not really felt it at all with this guy yet.

The main thing that's stopped me giving up on him relates to my actual phobia - I love how gentle he is with everything he does in my mouth, and that really helps. Normally I don't even like me going anywhere near there! I also like how he's tried to help me these two times I've emailed with a problem. Then again, I also remember how he forced the impressions on me while I was sedated...and suddenly I'm terrified again. Can't get my head straight on this at all.

If I try telling him, what should I say?

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

Brit - just seen your post. I'm still private, but the fees are much lower. I've thought about going back to P2, but I just can't afford it; affording private at all is a push.

Thank you for linking to the article - it's great! It was so helpful for me to read because it describes just what I've been missing and struggling without, and since it's written by a dentist, it means I can feel like my concerns aren't invalid. That's such a relief in itself. I love the 'tissue paper' touch description, and that's something my dentist does have - possibly better than my previous dentist even. But I definitely need a lot of talking to and encouragement and reassurance - both when I'm sedated and when I'm not - and that's just not happening. I wish I could just print the page out and give it to him, but I wouldn't have the guts! It would feel like I was telling him how to do his job, and I don't have the right to do that. He's seems to always be busy so I guess he's popular - it's just me with the problem.

Maybe I could ask him to talk more, and hope he figures out the right things to say for himself? I don't feel I can ask him to 'praise' me! But honestly, just one little "You did really well today" at the end of an appointment has the potential to transform my entire view of what's happened and reverse my mood...I really am that easy to please!

Re: Tomorrow! (Here we go again...)

Whoooooaaaahhhh! No she doesn't. Once you have had the best, it is very hard to accept anything less and it is unwise (as you very well know RP) to think all dentists are equally technically competent let alone people-skill competent.

Click to expand...

Not any incompetent dentist, don't infer..................... and it is a goal, (I've had phobia therapy remember) might just be I have an emergency and Mark is out of the office, his partner is covering..as a phobic I avoid and suffer, endanger my health, etc. because I can't see any dentist but my own or doesn't matter how highly they are recommended unless I have 5 meet and greet consults first,I can't have dental work and I can't let his EFDA work on me, as someone who can control my fear I go in and get treatment started. I don't lose sleep, have a panic attack or cry.

to pianimo How about saying this is a very big deal for me to have treatment, I love how gentle you are in my mouth and attentive to my concerns. I'm trying hard to trust you and not be afraid, but I could use some encouragment now and then.

rp