Can you reverse very early decay?

[Poppy1234]

Decay seen 5 years ago, no action taken by dentist..??

Hello all.

Five years ago I thought a wisdom tooth at the back looked a bit discoloured, & thought that might indicate the start of decay.
I pointed it out to my dentist, but he said it was fine.
I pointed it out a further 10 times, every six months, but he always said it was fine, but never bothered x-raying it.
Now he's finally x-rayed it today, & there IS a problem with it. Said it WAS decayed & needs a filling.

So why didn't he say so 5 years ago instead of leaving it to get worse?
Why do they say go to the dentist every 6 months to check on decay if they just ignore it for 5 years!

As it's got no worse at all in 5 years, then why does it need treatment now anyway?
And does it?
It appears to me to have this "arrested caries" I've heard about, where the decay stops.
It must have, or tooth would have gone bad in 5 years, surely??
It looks the same now as back then, it's only now he's bothered x-raying it. He said 6 months ago he'd x-ray it, then said he "didn't have time". So it just got ignored & ignored.

Why has a decaying tooth been left for so long? Anyone got any ideas??
I don't have a phobia, but don't want an unnecessary filling done. If it's been the same for 5 years, I wonder if it really needs a filling??

(Considering I eat no sweet stuff at all & clean my teeth all the time, I don't see how I can get ANY decay anyway....I'm baffled as to how I could have prevented this.)

Thanks.

 

[RP]

Re: Decay seen 5 years ago, no action taken by dentist..??

Tooth decay is a slow process, did you ask your dentist and not get a satisfactory answer? If you don't trust your dentist find a new one. Period

rp

 

[Poppy1234]

Re: Decay seen 5 years ago, no action taken by dentist..??

Hi RP.
It's just not that easy to change dentists where I live. There just aren't many taking on new NHS patients. Took me months to find this one years ago, & things are much worse now for finding NHS dentists.

I did point out to him that I've been mentioning this tooth to him for years, but he just said he could see something on the X-ray NOW.
But why wait 5 years, that's what I can't understand??
Decay may take a long time, but why ignore it for years until it gets worse, when he could have done the filling years ago??

What also bothers me is that I've never had a problem with a tooth.......until a dentist does a filling. Then it's never the same again & always hurts, even though I've only had small fillings.
This wisdom tooth doesn't hurt, looks no worse from 5 years ago, so I'm not convinced it needs a filling....

What's this "arrested caries" I keep hearing about??
How does a dentist know whether a slightly decayed tooth will stop decaying, or carry on?? By leaving it for years, like my dentist has done?
It just seems odd to me to ignore decay for years, when the discolouration was obvious.

Thanks.

 

[Poppy1234]

Re: Decay seen 5 years ago, no action taken by dentist..??

Any other thoughts as to why he ignored this for years??

Thanks.

 

[brit]

Re: Decay seen 5 years ago, no action taken by dentist..??

No apart from maybe lack of time coupled with incompetence - suggest you get him to show you the decay on the x-ray so you can feel sure the filling is appropriate at this stage.
Brownish spots/stains on teeth are often arrested decay and need no treatment.

I feel your frustration....

 

[Poppy1234]

Re: Decay seen 5 years ago, no action taken by dentist..??

No apart from maybe lack of time coupled with incompetence - suggest you get him to show you the decay on the x-ray so you can feel sure the filling is appropriate at this stage.
Brownish spots/stains on teeth are often arrested decay and need no treatment.

I feel your frustration....

Thanks Brit!
He is now adamant this needs a filling having finally done the x-ray.
Showing me the x-ray won't do much good!! I don't know what I'm looking for. I would guess if it's now showing on an x-ray it needs filling????
That's what he says anyway, & has told me to book an appointment for the filling.

I'm delaying this until I get more info.
I'm a bit of a perfectionist, & a bore that likes to know all about how these things work!!
Can he tell if it's arrested decay?? Wouldn't that show on a x-ray??
He's just saying it needs a filling.

Thanks!!

 

[Poppy1234]

Re: Decay seen 5 years ago, no action taken by dentist..??

PS.....

Someone has just said this in reply to my question.....(Posted elsewhere)

I can't tell you why the doctor didn't act quicker on it. But the problem at hand is that it has a cavity. It is a wisdom tooth. I honestly wouldn't even bother filling it. I would just have it pulled.

Wisdom teeth are very hard to clean since they are so far back. Wisdom teeth also don't seem to serve a purpose. If it wasn't hurting you, there is really NO reason to work on a wisdom tooth. 5 years ago, now, the outcome would have been the same- pull the tooth. But there's always a chance that is not needed, so he didn't act on it.

Unless you have pain in a tooth, the doctor won't xray it. Xrays cost money to you and to them and are not good for your health. What you see in your mouth is not what the dentist sees. He sees A WHOLE LOT MORE. If a tooth is not causing you any discomfort, the dentist is not going to mess with it. He probably now saw something off which is why he might have proceeded the way that he did- and didn't 5 years ago.



Why would anyone want to pull out a wisdom tooth, causing all that pain & discomfort, when all it needs is a tiny surface filling??
I don't think so! No-one is pulling that tooth out over my dead body!
It doesn't hurt in the slightest & only has a small amount of decay needing a small filling.
It has never caused me any problems at all, & is going no-where!

 

[brit]

Re: Decay seen 5 years ago, no action taken by dentist..??

PS.....

Someone has just said this in reply to my question.....(Posted elsewhere)

I can't tell you why the doctor didn't act quicker on it. But the problem at hand is that it has a cavity. It is a wisdom tooth. I honestly wouldn't even bother filling it. I would just have it pulled.

Wisdom teeth are very hard to clean since they are so far back. Wisdom teeth also don't seem to serve a purpose. If it wasn't hurting you, there is really NO reason to work on a wisdom tooth. 5 years ago, now, the outcome would have been the same- pull the tooth. But there's always a chance that is not needed, so he didn't act on it.

Unless you have pain in a tooth, the doctor won't xray it. Xrays cost money to you and to them and are not good for your health. What you see in your mouth is not what the dentist sees. He sees A WHOLE LOT MORE. If a tooth is not causing you any discomfort, the dentist is not going to mess with it. He probably now saw something off which is why he might have proceeded the way that he did- and didn't 5 years ago.



Why would anyone want to pull out a wisdom tooth, causing all that pain & discomfort, when all it needs is a tiny surface filling??
I don't think so! No-one is pulling that tooth out over my dead body!
It doesn't hurt in the slightest & only has a small amount of decay needing a small filling.
It has never caused me any problems at all, & is going no-where!

I agree with you - you would only extract it if there were insufficient room. An NHS oral surgeon acting in my best interests left one of my 4 wisdoms behind as he felt there was enough room and there has been - and one day I might need that molar. I had a GA in hospital for the op, so to save the NHS system money, he might have just taken all 4 while I was under but he didn't and I knew he didn't plan to in advance...that was his clinical judgement that only 3 needed to go.
NHS guidelines now re wisdom teeth are not to remove unless causing trouble /extremely likely to. In USA it's a certain moneyspinner to tell virtually everyone they need them out and people post on here saying they want to get it done before they go to College and fall off their parents insurance...I ask you is not at least some of this profit-driven madness .
It's certainly true though that the GDC/NHS discourages constant automatic x-rays (unlike insurance-based USA) - but there has to be a sensible middle way surely.

No idea who sent you that reply but by using term doctor it implied they were USA based although some of the leave it alone sentiments were a bit UK NHSish lol. Who was it?

 

[Poppy1234]

Re: Decay seen 5 years ago, no action taken by dentist..??

I agree with you - you would only extract it if there were insufficient room. An NHS oral surgeon acting in my best interests left one of my 4 wisdoms behind as he felt there was enough room and there has been - and one day I might need that molar. I had a GA in hospital for the op, so to save the NHS system money, he might have just taken all 4 while I was under but he didn't and I knew he didn't plan to in advance...that was his clinical judgement that only 3 needed to go.
NHS guidelines now re wisdom teeth are not to remove unless causing trouble /extremely likely to. In USA it's a certain moneyspinner to tell virtually everyone they need them out and people post on here saying they want to get it done before they go to College and fall off their parents insurance...I ask you is not at least some of this profit-driven madness .
It's certainly true though that the GDC/NHS discourages constant automatic x-rays (unlike insurance-based USA) - but there has to be a sensible middle way surely.

No idea who sent you that reply but by using term doctor it implied they were USA based although some of the leave it alone sentiments were a bit UK NHSish lol. Who was it?

Cheers Brit.
It was posted by someone called Curly on another forum. I put the same post on 2 forums to see what people thought.
All my wisdom teeth are perfectly positioned & give me no trouble. (They did a bit for a few years. The skin at the back would get inflamed, but never now.)
I would never have a good tooth removed.

 

[Poppy1234]

I was just wondering if there was anything you could do to stop a tooth decaying once it's started?
I've heard about remineralisation, but once a tiny bit of decay shows up, is there no way this can be reversed??

My dentist is now wavering over doing a filling in a lower wisdom tooth after I questioned if a filling was really necessary.
It's been looking discoloured for 5 years, and no worse to look at, so doesn't seem to be in any hurry to go bad.
Seems to have a minute amount of decay that isn't progressing quickly or anything.

I don't use toothpaste, but keep my teeth extremely clean and never eat sweet things, so I'm hoping I can reverse this slight decay??

I gauge it with a dental tool every day to keep it totally clean, (the dental health foundation said this was a good idea??) and brush it with bicarbonate of soda.
But is there a product that I can maybe buy, that isn't a revolting toothpaste, (I can't use the stuff, repulsed by it) that might stop it decaying properly? (I'm in the uk and we can't buy neat fluoride and I've never been offered a fluoride treatment by an NHS dentist)

My tooth doesn't hurt in the slightest, and am put off by going for a filling as 2 people I know have said they now have constant pain in a wisdom tooth after a small filling, when they had none before.
I would work hard to save it from getting worse, though it's hard to know what more I can do, as I never stop cleaning my teeth, so I'm baffled how it started to decay anyway.

It's a well positioned wisdom tooth, and not difficult to reach, and I've never had a problem with it.
Don't want it to go bad and lose it, but not keen on having it messed around with if I can prevent any decay from progressing.

Thanks.

 

[mahiyu]

I have patches on some of my teeth where decay has started then remineralised and it hasn't progressed since. They never seem to cause any concern at check-ups, so I assume the decay has stopped, though on my teeth the patches have never gone back to being tooth coloured (luckily they aren't in really noticable places!)

I'm not sure what products other than toothpaste you could use, other than possibly fluoride mouthwash? I have also read that having a lot of calcium-rich food such as milk and cheese can help, as they make your saliva rich in calcium ions which get built into the tooth structure.

 

[Poppy1234]

Hi Mahiyu,

I'm not sure that once it shows a tiny bit of decay on an x-ray (as mine has) that the decay has gone too far though, and only a small filling will stop this.....??

I put another post on re this dentist ignoring this discolouration for years, and since questioning him, he is taking another look at the x-ray and getting a second opinion.
The thing is, if you leave it and hope it gets better, it might not, and before you know it you have toothache and a bad tooth!

To me, it's not changed at all visually in 5 years, and I look at it and prod it every day to keep it clean.
So I feel it's stopped decaying....but if it shows something on the x-ray...??

I feel my teeth were filled for no good reason when I was a kid. (Aged 9. I'm now 45) In the UK they used to fill them as soon as they saw a tiny bit of decay. They don't seem to do that now, and they now wait and see what happens.
I have enough unnecessary metal in my gob....don't want any more. It looks unsightly.

Did you get x-rays? That seems to be the decider.

Can teeth still remineralise once a tiny bit of real decay shows up??

Mouthwashes are as repulsive as toothpastes to me. No difference. Could never put anything that revolting near my mouth. I am sick just smelling this kind of stuff.
I have a lot of milk, and no sweet things in my diet at all. Yet still can't prevent a cavity.

 

[mahiyu]

Hi

At my last checkup a few months ago I had full mouth x-rays and none of the bits that I think are remineralised seemed to cause any concern. It may be that the decay was only on the surface of the teeth in question and hadn't penetrated far enough to be a problem.

I'm no dentist so I can't really comment on the tooth that your dentist wants to fill. Maybe it looked fine on the outside but when he x-rayed it he found that it was actually bad? I have also read of some older x-ray equipment sometimes giving "false positives" on teeth as the quality isn't great, while modern equipment gives clearer more reliable images. I have no idea how true this is - maybe one of the dentists on the board can comment?

With regards to decay, I gather than sweet things aren't the only causes of decay - I caught an episode of QI recently where they said that potato starch can be worse for teeth than sugar as it sticks to teeth, while sugar dissolves in saliva! I'm not sure what you can do though, short of cutting all carbohydrates out of your diet!

Hope this has been of some use!

Matthew

 

[Poppy1234]

Hi Matthew,
It sounds like mine only has the tiniest bit of decay, whereas I think remineralisation can only occur in the PRE decay stage, when there are just slight changes that can be reversed if you keep it very clean.
Maybe one of the dentists on here can confirm this?
Once the tiniest bit of decay can be seen on a x-ray, does this mean it HAS to be filled as it will definately go bad if left, no matter what you do??

Whatever I eat I clean my teeth straight after, or rinse with water after everything I drink. If this doesn't prevent decay, and it isn't doing, I'm at a loss as to what will....

My dentist says I still need fluoride. (My teeth have never seen fluoride and no dentist, including him, has ever offered me any) yet the British Dental Foundation says it is of no use to me at all at my age.....

 

[olanda]

i think that decay doesn't need to be treated if it's 'arrested decay', which means that it's stopped decaying and remineralised; although the brown spots will still show on the teeth they will be hard instead of soft when the dentist probes them so they won't need filling.

i also think that if decay's visible on x-ray it should be treated since it has to be pretty big (not huge, but beyond reversal!) to be visible on x-ray.

if the decay in your tooth is a tiny amount but still needs filling and you're worried about it i suggest that you go to a dentist who uses modern equipment such as microscopes, very slow small drills or air abrasion, and bonded fillings (the white ones) because this will mean only the necessary amount of tooth will be taken away and this really shouldn't have any majorly negative influence on your tooth if it really is only a small cavity.

what you don't want to do is go to a dentist who uses a very fast drill and takes away half your tooth in a few seconds for a filling that should have been the size of a pin-head!! the wonders of hindsight...

 

[Poppy1234]

Re: Decay seen 5 years ago, no action taken by dentist..??

I've just asked my dentist for an explanation of this 5 year delay, and he now seems a bit unsure as to whether this filling is necessary after all.........
He says he's asking for a second opinion on the x-ray....
I'm getting one too....going to another dentist on Weds!!

Hearing horror stories from people that had a lower wisdom tooth filled and had constant pain ever since.
This tooth gives me no problems at all and is easy to clean, so I don't want any more unnecessary metal work in my mouth!

 

[Poppy1234]

Hi Olanda,
Don't think I can be that choosy whilst getting free treatment on UK NHS...
You are lucky to get a dentist at all....
(My mum was forced to wait 2 months in agonising pain for an appointment with a dental surgeon, rather than a normal dentist. Impossible for her to be seen sooner.)

I won't get white fillings in a wisdom tooth on the NHS, and you get whatever drill you are given!
I guess private patients can get fussy....but you'll pay for it...

He never prodded the tooth. I showed it him for 5 years and he's only just x-rayed it, saying there's a minute amount of decay, which makes me wonder if I can reverse this.

So how do they know if it has actually "arrested"? Just by prodding it? Because he didn't do this.....

 

[brit]

Hi Olanda,
Don't think I can be that choosy whilst getting free treatment on UK NHS...
You are lucky to get a dentist at all....
(My mum was forced to wait 2 months in agonising pain for an appointment with a dental surgeon, rather than a normal dentist. Impossible for her to be seen sooner.)

I won't get white fillings in a wisdom tooth on the NHS, and you get whatever drill you are given!
I guess private patients can get fussy....but you'll pay for it...

He never prodded the tooth. I showed it him for 5 years and he's only just x-rayed it, saying there's a minute amount of decay, which makes me wonder if I can reverse this.

So how do they know if it has actually "arrested"? Just by prodding it? Because he didn't do this.....

The type of drill is not really the issue it is just that more structure has to be removed for an amalgam filling than a composite but composites are also harder to do successfully as they are very technique sensitive. You really should discuss this with your dentist and be guided by what he feels is best based on pros and cons.
You could pay a bit extra and request a composite filling on the NHS but it would depend whether the dentist thought this were appropriate. You really need the filling to last a long time and amalgam fares better in this regard than composite in general.

 

[Poppy1234]

Thanks Brit.
Is composite a white filling? All my other fillings are silver so another right at the back won't make any difference.
It's not the type of filling that particularly interests me, just whether it's needed at all, and if I can stop the decay myself from progressing any further??

I have a silver filling between 2 teeth, 2 teeth from my front ones, that looks unsightly. Had I known it would show I would have paid extra for a white one, but was given no option, and was never told in advance it would show so prominantly.
The black colour of the filling appears to be "bleeding" into the colour of the teeth too, making it look worse.
It looks like grey decay, but it's not, as it was clear on an x-ray.
But taking the filling out and doing a white one probably not a good idea as I'd lose even more tooth with more drilling.

 

[Poppy1234]

Ok, I'm MAD now!!!

Went to my new dentist today, and told them all about this wisdom tooth being ignored for 5 years.
He said my other dentist DEFINATELY should have told me the tooth was showing changes, and to take extra care, YEARS ago....
(He didn't. He did the opposite and told me to stop fussing over nothing. So he did more harm than good, as I didn't take any extra care of it as I thought it was ok.)

New dentist also said he should have x-rayed it years ago, told me all about remineralisation, given me fluoride, and discussed my diet.
He did NONE of these things. (Where's the icon that looks like Mr Angry when you need it.....)

My dentist just left my tooth to rot, giving me no advice at all.
I even asked about arrested caries, as I was so sure it had started to decay, and I wanted to stop it.
He just said "there's nothing you can do to reverse decay".

I'm hopping mad now.
This goon has robbed me of the CHANCE to try and remineralise it.
It might have failed, but I should have had five years to have a bash...

Is it really too late to try and get it to remineralise, now it's showing on the x-ray?
I have some Duraphat 5000. If I drenched it in the stuff for 6 months would it maybe reverse it??

I'm going to complain about this dentist.
Who should I complain to??
What on earth is the point going to the dentist every 6 months if they just ignore decay....And now I've seen another dentist who's confirmed this, I'm really annoyed.

I wouldn't mind them just finding a cavity. These things happen.
It's the fact it was ignored for so long.
Sorry for prattling on.....I'm such a perfectionist with my teeth.
I brush like a lunatic to keep decay away as I don't use toothpaste, and really want to keep my teeth perfect forever....not have them neglected by a dentist when I'm doing my very best....