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Charged for hard reline on new denture

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Dentureadventure

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So where do I start, had a nightmare time from start to well not even finished yet.
Had 10 top remaining teeth extracted by choice ( even longer story )
3 sessions 2 on first, the rest pulled but 2 canines snapped one above gum line other below, but immediate denture placed over them, yeah they were well in and dentist said they are special lol.
Back for final extraction of broken canines, which included surgical extraction, lots and I mean lots taken away, not scalpel for gums just in with the same tool for bone, anyway after pretty high up and getting close to cheekbone out they came.
Still I struggled with the denture which never fitted.
Had to take it out as was agony and allow bone and gum to ease.
Back for and adjustment and check of sockets now infected.
It still I tried to wear the very loose on one side denture.
Back again today and been told after only 1 month and the fact that the pallette is way of on the slipping side, as well as the borders ( gum line up to inner check ) is way way too short, both not giving proper suction and allowing slip and a denture that sits very far from level, I have been told it's hard reline time to put back material where it's short ??.
To say I am perplexed is an understatement, but also they want to charge me for a badly made new, one month old immediate denture hard reline.

Obviously there is a lot of missing material, before even the mention of a hard reline let alone soft, which I wouldn't do anyway. I would imagine a few adjustments for pain or sores are free but is a hard line free on a short on one side expected ?
I don't feel I should have to pay for a hard reline on a denture just one month old, not to mention I am surprised they even want to do that yet, granted I am booked for the reline in January which would then make it 3 months after, but it never fitted before my swelling went down or thereafter.

Any help is greatly appreciated folks.
 
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Dentureadventure

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Oh am in the UK, NHS but I paying for everything.
 
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Dentureadventure

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The inner denture pallette is nowhere near my inner gum/pallette the same side outer gum line is that's short you can nearly see where the denture ends and is no where near the top inner part of my cheek, so much so it's tearing up my cheek.
The denture also rocks when I eat, speak and smile and air escaping causing clicking.
Surely a hard reline is an admission it's way off, to be fair in my eyes a total remake should be done with new impressions as these are way off.
I understand that gums shrink but this particular side didnt even fit when swollen which would have made them a tight fit let alone 4 weeks after and some swelling has went down.
The same side is so wide and combined with the other issues there is now way it can get suction to level and secure it.

Am so disheartened.
 
Gordon

Gordon

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Immediate dentures are basically educated guesswork, as to what the gums/bone will look like after the extractions.
New impressions/making a new denture would be a total waste of time and money at the moment, they'll need relined in a few months anyway.
I tend to agree that charging for a reline at this early stage is a bit cheeky, it might be worth your while raising a complaint to the practice principal about this.
 
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Dentureadventure

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Just spoke to the lady on the desk.
As my dentist only works a few days a week she is going to have a word.
I agree it is early to be doing a hard reline, but imho speaks volumes as to how much work needs done just to get them to where they and I would have expected at this early stage.

For me it ain't really about the money it's about the principal, I mean it's only 4 weeks since my procedure and I am booked for January allowing only 3 months total for the hard reline which I find partially pointless.

Hopefully they will understand my plight and either make a heavy reduction or free of charge or even a brand new immediate which again is a little pointless at this early stage. Time will tell, but I am so disappointed.

I understand that these are temps but I can't even smile, eat or speak without them completely falling out, and can't use any adhesive due to healing sockets because of surgical extractions which were extensive.
They need left side borders to gums lengthened, the same side inner palette protrudes badly which is nowhere near my own pallette, and finally same side are very gummy and not level compared to the other a side.

This just doesn't seem the norm, even after reading people's experiences. I mean how on earth did they manage 20-30 years ago, because I know people who had immediate dentures and never replaced them with perms, no issues at all.
 
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Dentureadventure

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Thanks for the reply, time as always will tell.

I understand now just how much is involved in dentistry, wow I knew to a point but the skill involved really has opened my eyes. My surgical extractions very very touch and go, even after my skillful dentist drilled away I could tell it was looking very 50/50, the dentist really did try before the surgical procedure but they would not budge they said my canines were special lol. Surgical bone removal was the only option, went really far up close to the start of my cheekbone which really worried me. But we got there in the end, and they did say they were concerned, has said lately I have small satellite bone on one side and will have to be careful till healed. No stitches though and really is taking a time to heal.

Anyway thanks again, I live in hope which I am sure will in the end provide me with a great smile again.
 
Gordon

Gordon

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That last post would go some way towards explaining things though, the denture will have been designed on the assumption that you had normal non-surgical extractions, removing a load of bone would not have been allowed for and the denture was probably fitted as a "better than nothing" job.

Personally I would have waived the reline fee, as a goodwill gesture, which I think is what you should be pushing for, but the dentist is within their rights to charge.

This is why I'm always wary of people who think getting all their teeth out is "easy" and that false teeth are simple... they can be but not always and you never know how somebody is going to get on with a complete denture until they get one.
Complete denture construction is in some ways more of an art than a science and it's a dying art as people keep their teeth longer and have less need of dentures.
 
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Dentureadventure

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So long story but had 10 upper teeth removed, two canines needing surgical extraction and pretty severe too, snapped and then back 2 week later for finale, wow lots of bone removed was bad.
Anyway two and a half months later my top denture falls out my mouth, which it did even when swollen day one. I pointed out that the denture never ever fitted even after adjustments. Now it's terrible, I understand gums and swelling change but it never fitted day one and even worse now.

Just left dentist after more shards of bone that were parts of socket removed and pointed out again it is unwearable.
This time is was told I have to expect this, and was made out to be a tricky patient, and this that won't be fixed to fit against my gums and palette.
We had agreed to a hard reline 4 weeks after initial fitting which to me concludes this was a bad fit, but now after pointing out the palette protrudes towards my tounge very badly, low borders a huge ridge at front gum, this doesn't even take into account my bit is none existent the list goes on and on. My dentist hasn't even looked to see whilst in my mouth what issues I have pointed out.

I was told I would have to pay for a hard reline which will not fix the bulging rear but will only fill in the gap and pack it out which won't sort the issues I pointed out.

Am very disappointed at this to be frank, and feel now I am being made out to be difficult with too high an expectation.

Can someone tell me if I am expecting too much to have an immediate fit at least once while healing, and what the NHS guarantee is for immediate dentures, because this one is way off but my dentist is having none of it.

I don't expect this denture to fit forever but I do expect it to at least not fall out of my mouth for more that 5 mins.

Thanks in advance.
 
Gordon

Gordon

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1) There is no such thing as an NHS guarantee. NHS work is meant to be "of a satisfactory standard" but that's obviously open to debate.

2) Unfortunately as a lay person you can't really describe the issues with the denture very well and without seeing you I can't really see what's wrong technically with the denture, IYSWIM.

3) As I said in your other thread, I would have done a chair side reline free as a goodwill gesture, but the dentist is within their rights not to do this.

4) If the dentist isn't prepared to then your best next step would be to write a formal complaint to the practice, there are NHS regulations on handling complaints which the practice must follow. If you don't get anywhere with the practice then you can escalate it to the NHS Ombudsman but it's unlikely that the practice will let it get that far. I'd spend a bit of time working out what you actually want out of your complaint. A whole new denture would be a waste of time at this stage even if it sounds like an attractive option!
 
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Dentureadventure

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Yeah I totally agree with no point in a new from scratch at th moment but in saying that the intrusion to my tounge from the palette of the denture is quite shocking no reline from the info given from my dentist will sort this.

Of course I understand satisfactory is open to debate but even as a layperson but profession I can clearly see this as should any dental profession was/is never going to work.

I am happy to take on board any cost, I am just very disappointed in the way in which this has been dealt with.

Maybe most wouldn't say anything even if badly made and fitting but that should never be the case.

If the appliance is causing major speech issues along with eating no bite whatsoever, air to escape with no suction then clearly this is unacceptable and I would always advise to at th very least do something about it.

After all it is a service at the end of the day and everyone should expect a reasonable quality of such that fits.

Thanks for taking the time to reply it is much appreciated.
 
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Dentureadventure

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I have just been advised and also given a source that does say there is a guarantee for NHS dental work.

While I understand it may be more difficult for people out with the dental profession to not be able to articulate the exact terms of dentistry faults, it does not mean that laymen whom are educated can not describe clearly what the issues may be.

While I understand there may be a grey area when it comes to dentures there should obviously still be a level of expertise shown in making these items.

It can't be the case that the get out clause if you will for any badly made denture which must happen from time to time due to bad impressions or just bad workmanship. Sometimes it must happen and I do feel this should be admitted when the occasion arises.
 

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letsconnect

letsconnect

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Hi @Dentureadventure - I've merged your two threads in order to make your story easier to follow. From the screenshots, it sounds like there's no guarantee on NHS dentures, and you (quite rightly) feel that dentures should be made to a certain standard.

As Gordon said, the first step would be a written complaint to the dental practice.

I'm not quite sure who to contact re. including dentures on the list of NHS guaranteed items alongside fillings, crowns, etc., but you could make a request to NHS England (that's if you're in England) on this website:

 
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Dentureadventure

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Agreed i am very disappointed more so with their attitude.

Does any of this denture look correct.

There is a black material within the actual denture, this is not plaque it's embedded by the looks at time of making. To add I have tried to wear it maybe 3 or 4 times without luck.

There also seems to have been an issue with the front and they have tried to cover it up with a clear acrylic.

The palette protrudes and is not the shape of my actual mouth causing it to fall out due to no suction.

I understand they has to be room for swelling, but it never fitted at the height of my swelling and does look distorted.

Surely from the pics which I understand may be difficult to see, this can't be the best from a lab. If so I am absolutely appalled.

What do you guys think.
 

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Dentureadventure

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Few more pics, this really is the thickness of the left side in the pics, I understand no one is symmetrical but trust me when I say this is no where near close.

Moving forward I think I am going to discontinue my treatment there but not before this is resolved. No hard reline will fix these issues.

I may reject it but then that leaves me in a tricky.

But I will definitely be sending an email looking for an explanation and resolve.


But wow this is not what people should expect.
 

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Dentureadventure

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I know this isn't the most in focus pic but this is no trick of light etc, it's really this think compared to the other side.
My gums and palette are not this thick, and are more in keeping with the narrower side, I just don't know what on earth they were thinking.
 

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Gordon

Gordon

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Moving forward, make a written complaint, request a refund for the denture fee, as far as I understand English NHS regulations, then you can keep the denture even if they refund the fee for it.

You'd really want to not make a brand new denture until about 6 months minimum after the extractions, otherwise it would have a very short life span, so modifying that one as a temporary measure would be the best if it could be made wearable.
 
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Dentureadventure

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Thanks for the advice.
Problem is if I do go for a hard reline it won't deal with the main issue, the thickness and width of one side they will essentially fill it in and pack rather than make it more fitted.
My understanding is this won't repair or remould/replace the palette part.
Ideal situation is a remake of my immediate which I do understand will again cause me issues very soon with fitment again.

As you say some sort of adjustment to the one I have would help tide me over, but it really is that bad.

Just spent the best part of 30 mins prising polygrip from my healing gums, not ideal.

I would image from the reply you are in agreement that this merits a refund ( which I don't really mind for ) I would prefer a denture that fits even if it is for the very short term.

But can I ask the obvious, does this one look poorly made in your opinion from the pics I have shown ?

Thanks
 
Gordon

Gordon

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Honestly no it doesn't sorry.
You need a rebase done, not a reline. The denture needs to have a new impression inside the existing one preferably, then returned to the lab to have the old base cut away and a new one made to fit the shape of your palate better. But this is assuming that some other technical aspects of the denture are OK, which I can't tell without examining you.
 
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Dentureadventure

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I did ask my dentist for this but they said no.
They actually thought I wanted the pallette part taken away as if a horseshoe shape. This was not the case and I did explain properly but they said they won't be cutting away the pallette to replace with a new best they can do is a hard reline the outer borders as they are short also and add more material to the inner ill fitting denture.

I am surprised that the black material that is embedded within the teeth isn't what you would call a defect as well as the obvious crack or damage to gum within the front two teeth.

Rapidly loosing confidence with my dentist as well as lab.
 
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