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Help needed regarding next steps to take, I'm getting to my wits end!

G

Gilbo

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Feb 1, 2020
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Location
norwich, norfolk, uk
Hi. I'm sorry to have to post yet another thread, but my problems are increasing rather than decreasing. I joined this site because I have had clinical depression, anxiety and stress for nearly 40 years! Just to recap, I had my first molar on the top, left side extracted a few weeks ago. Since then, I have had a lot of pain and a dry socket. I have been on antibiotics and thousands of painkillers and the pain has mostly gone away now. The socket is still very obviously open and is causing me no problems at the moment. The trouble is mostly caused, I'm sure, by the shape of my teeth. Most people have teeth that widen as they go from front to back and make a sort of bowl shape, if that makes sense? Well mine front to back don't really change and almost make a perfect 'U' shape, leaving my tongue at the back, to be squashed up against my teeth.

Well now that has left me with both teeth on either side of the gap, pressing hard into my tongue and although the corners aren't dangerously sharp, this is a contant feeling of high pressure, which is making me nauseous all day long. I am currently between dentists. The emergency one who extracted my tooth (having followed Gordon's advice and called them regarding this problem) has now come out saying that as they are only meant to deal with emergencies and that this is a 'cosmetic' problem only (they don't seem to understand anxiety!), they will not see me anymore and that I must try to bring forward my initial appointment with my new NHS dentist. (I have an appointment for 26th. March). I rang them and they said there is no chance of my being seen before then, not even for an emergency! I have an old night guard that has changed shape a bit I'm sure, since it was made, but still works (just) to help take my mind off it and lets me sleep for just a few hours. Although it is also uncomfortable and does seem to leave me with a very dry mouth.

I don't know why, but I cannot get this problem out of my head. It's this constant pressure that is driving me mad, as it makes my tongue feel very strange, a bit like sticking something like a finger or a pen into the side of my tongue and holding it there permanently! This of course is rekindling all the past years of stresses and almost putting me into a state of panic. I wake up in a hot sweat (with or without the night guard) and just want it over.

My options, as I see them, are to ask my dentist whether she would fit a bridge over the two surrounding teeth (2nd molar and 2nd premolar), thereby filling the gap. I've noticed on here that some people have problems with these, but it seems my best professional option, unless there is anything else anyone of you kind people can suggest? I've looked up 'filling the gap' and most things seem to only address a gap between the two front teeth! However, I found a kit called 'temp tooth' which I sent off for and it has arrived today (£7.99). Should I use it with a still open socket? Bearing in mind that I am now at the desperate stage. My partner and I are both disabled (she's a wheelchair user and I her full-time carer) and only just 'survive' on benefits, as I had to give up working to care for her. So private treatment is out of the question. Another option I found is this 'Dentek' temporary filling, chalky material, that is meant to be a little more permanent than the temp tooth stuff. (I'm confused by all the temp tooth postings and YouTube videos, that either suggest leaving the thing in for months, taking it out when you eat and lastly taking it out at every mealtime and nighttime. I think to leave it in for a long time, you are meant to use dental fixative, like for dentures. This I think is the same for the Dentek stuff). Last of all, only today, I found a thing called 'bonding' which is aimed at, again, fixing the gap between front teeth, but would this maybe do for this much larger gap? Forgot to say that the temp tooth stuff is aimed at temporarily replacing front teeth and doesn't mention molars! So I don't know.

I'm sitting here almost shaking with nerves. What do I do? I know I really shouldn't put anything in the gap until the socket has completely healed over. All the temporary solutions seem to be aimed at front teeth only. My partner is fed up with me going on about this all day, every day, though she does try to be supportive. I am literally at my wits end and ready to jam almost anything into that socket, to spare my poor tongue from being 'beaten up' by my vicious teeth! I'm sorry for the long boring post! Please somebody help me, if you can. Thank you!
 
Gordon

Gordon

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A bridge is not an option until at least 4 months after the extraction, preferably six. The socket needs to heal first.
Unfortunately with the current virus hysteria I doubt very much if any practice can do anything for you in the meantime, almost everything is in lockdown. You might be able to persuade somebody to have a look for you and possibly smooth off any rough edge on the teeth next to the socket, but that's about it.
Anything which can cause an aerosol (such as dental drills) is banned for the foreseeable future.
 
letsconnect

letsconnect

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In Scotland, anyway (though it's probably only a matter of time before this is adopted elsewhere):


Gilbo, really sorry to hear that you're having such a rough time :(. Maybe you could try experimenting with (sugar-free) chewing gum to see if that temporarily brings some relief around the sharp edges (grasping at straws here... I can't really see how it would stay in place)
 
G

Gilbo

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norwich, norfolk, uk
Well thank you both, though that is really the last thing I needed to hear! I would say my problem is an emergency due to the anxiety I'm currently going through. sometimes it's bearable, but I seem to worry more when I'm alone at night. (My disabled partner has to sleep on a special hospital bed due to her condition, so we're both in separate rooms!) I thought about maybe trying chewing gum letsconnect, but I've tried it for something similar before and I don't remember it going all that well! I think that the tooth only came out 15 days ago, but I swear that it seems more like 3 weeks to a month. Time is a great healer so they say, but when you're living through that time, it takes forever to pass!

Gordon, if I could maybe bend your ear for a bit longer. I just wondered if maybe there is anything you would know of that I could use to artificially close the gap? That would be maybe something like my night guard, only shorter, like a similar piece of plastic to it, or some other material that I could use to cover the two teeth and the gap in the middle? I suppose it would be similar to a crown, but to cover all three teeth at once. I've seen this paste stuff that some videos show, but that was enormous compared to the teeth, so is obviously not an option.

The 'temp tooth' stuff, is also not going to work at the moment, as I gingerly touched the socket today, only to find there is still a lot of pain there, so having a big lump of plastic moulded to the shape of a tooth jammed into it isn't going to work either! I had a go at making a tooth that would fit the gap (without going near the socket) and found that, although the chappie on the YouTube video used 16 of these plastic beads to make a fake front tooth, I used over 50 for my ex-molar space, yet there was still more gap to fill! I thought I could maybe somehow fix it over the gap, but above the socket, yet there's no way that would work. I always seem to get problems that no one else ever has! I've searched on here to find a soulmate with similar problems but couldn't. How about that numbing mouthwash stuff they used to sell, is that still available? I could 'paint' some on the side of my tongue for a bit of temporary relief maybe?

So I have to wait 4-6 months for a bridge! I thought that, as a bridge is fixed to the two adjacent teeth without touching the extraction site, that it could be done sooner? I think I shall need some expert mental health help like anti-depressants or counselling, in order to just last that long, as I'll be climbing the walls by September! I wish now that I'd kept the tooth in, had it crowned and then just put up with the occasional pain (At least 2 weeks in every month), but we can't go backwards can we?

The only other option I can think of is some way of filling the gap, but again without going near the socket. I don't know if in your many years of dentistry, you may have come across any such material? Or something at least to get me out of this miserable situation? I will gladly try something and will probably be trying anything before long, if I can't find a proper solution. Just one last thing, my partner had a tooth out years ago, but with a much smaller gap left, which eventually shrank, as the surrounding teeth migrated to fill the gap. Can I ask you how long that process normally takes please? Once again, many thanks for your help. Both of you.
 
Gordon

Gordon

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The reason you have to wait for a bridge is that the bone remodels around the extraction site, if you bridge it too soon then as the bone remodels it will leave a massive gap under the false tooth part of the bridge, which causes lots of issues with food getting packed into the gap, the bridge will fail fairly quickly due to decay caused by the food packing.

You could put a partial denture into the space right now, it's tricky to make one for a single molar but it's possible, IF you can find a dentist who'll do it for you, I appreciate it's driving you to despair but it's not within the official guidelines for an emergency.

You can't make an effective false tooth out of those temp dental things, not for a molar sized gap. It's also a bit dangerous, they don't show up on x-rays and they would be a nice size to inhale...
 
G

Gilbo

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Feb 1, 2020
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norwich, norfolk, uk
I hear what you're saying Gordon. I don't WANT to have to do anything really. I'd much rather just get used to having this gap, but due to the narrow space between my teeth, I don't know if that will ever happen, as the moment I remove my night guard, back comes the nausea!

I've got a few things today that will hopefully help a bit. letsconnect was very helpful with her chewing gum suggestion (so thank you for that, letsconnect) as, although I can still taste the sticky bit of gum all the while, I've found that one and a half sticks of gum fits the space nicely, while managing to keep it just above the socket without touching it. It feels a little strange, but stops my teeth corners from digging in to my tongue and makes life just that little more bearable. The fact that I can still taste it is probably also a good thing, as it makes me remember to take it out before eating or falling asleep! I've also got a pair of those anti-nausea wristbands to try. I don't know if they work or if it's all mumbo jumbo, but if they do, then I should have some more comfortable days, which hopefully WILL let me get used to the gap and get me over these next few months.

When I had to change my dentist recently, out of all the dentists in Norwich, only one was taking on new NHS patients which I jumped at, so if she doesn't want to make me a temporary (or not) single molar denture, then I don't suppose I have a choice. Other than to win the lottery and go private! I also see what you mean about the bridge thing, if I had it made too soon, it could go wrong and I've seen other people writing on here that theirs, (done properly) can still cause them many problems. Though not all of course!

I think trying to put up with this and finding coping techniques to help me handle the stress and anxiety is probably my best option. I can't imagine that it will help much, but I have to try to be positive about it at least. I just hope that, when I do see my dentist, that she is in agreement with me, that the gap needs filling somehow, as with my last dentist, the way he would tell me what he was going to do with my teeth, seemed more like it was his mouth than mine! So my last question would have to be, do I have a choice whether a dentist does what I want if I request it, or is it really just up to them? I realise that they know best of course, but I just couldn't bear to have to put up with what I'm going through for the rest of my life!
Many thanks again.
 
Enarete

Enarete

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Hi Gilbo,

so sorry to read about what you are going through. I think this is the worst timing for any dental (or medical) issues as getting dental support of any kind is so hard. Really glad letsconnect's idea with the chewing gum was helpful for you and also that you are trying your best to find coping techniques to handle the stress and anxiety. I know it is hard and I see how it is difficult to imagine anything would work. Sadly sometimes there are moments when managing or changing the situation is not possible and trying to find ways to manage the stress about it is the only approach. I hope you will be able to find a relief soon, no matter what it will be that might lead to it.

As you mentioned mental health support and coping techniques to handle stress, I just wanted to make sure to pop in a link for the Samaritans here: https://www.samaritans.org in case you don't know about them yet. They are known for helping people who struggle with feeling suicidal, but that is actually not their only focus - they are here to serve as an open ear and a support for anyone who is going through a difficult time. The probably biggest pro is that they are available to be contacted via phone and email even those days. So in case you feel like needing to talk to someone, that is a possibility (not pressing, just wanted to mention it).

All the best wishes for you and your partner, take care and keep us posted
 
Gordon

Gordon

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So my last question would have to be, do I have a choice whether a dentist does what I want if I request it, or is it really just up to them?
The dentist is ethically and legally obliged to "Do No Harm" so if what you want to do will be, in their opinion actually harmful to you, or not in your best interest, then they can't do it, no matter how much you beg them.
On the other hand, you're an adult with the capacity to make decisions for yourself, so you can always refuse whatever treatment they've suggested.
Hope that makes sense.
 
G

Gilbo

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Feb 1, 2020
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norwich, norfolk, uk
Thank you very much Enarete. Yes it is a difficult time, but I hope quite a bit of time will pass very quickly! Like if I was on holiday. So I can get this thing healed up and treated! I have used the Samaritans before and the first time I did (back in 1982) although they couldn't 'fix the problem' just talking to them helped a lot. When I used them in 2014, they said they couldn't do as much to help as before, but at least they stopped me taking the easy way out!

I understand Gordon. I think the request would only be to either, like you say, have a single molar denture fitted or to have a bridge and I don't think those two should be out of the question, but I suppose if the socket doesn't heal well, then the bridge may not work, but I don't see the denture idea being a problem if, again like you say, my dentist will make me one up, or that I could find another dentist that will! Just filling the gap or something to cover it up, on the inside of my teeth at least, seems to be the best way to go.
 
letsconnect

letsconnect

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Gilbo, you should be able to return the temp tooth stuff and get a refund (despite having used it), on the grounds that it is unusable ('not fit for purpose'). Unless it specifically mentioned in the description that it was not suitable for back teeth?

Glad to hear that you managed to get some temporary relief from the chewing gum :)!
 
G

Gilbo

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Feb 1, 2020
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norwich, norfolk, uk
Thank you again letsconnect. I won't be returning the 'temp tooth' stuff as, having found the chewing gum helps just a little (it keeps dropping out!), I thought I'd try removing the gum and attempting to create a similarly sized plastic tooth. Now I know it's possibly dangerous to do that and use it, but this is the level of desperation that I have reached! I MUST do something to try and help relieve my symptoms. Thankfully, my condition does seem to be improving just a little. I no longer need to use the night guard all the time. I've just had a major panic attack about an hour ago, but that is calming down a bit and strangely, later in the day, it doesn't seem to affect me quite so much.

Anyway, back to the plastic 'temp tooth'. It too drops out after a while, so I have got some 'Fixodent' to hold it in place. This mostly works, though (although it's 'neutral' flavoured) it still tastes awful! With that, it nearly works OK, though having an open socket, obviously I don't glue anywhere other than the sides of the thing, so that it sticks just to the teeth in front and behind. It still wiggles about a bit and this is due to having a dent at either end, needing more fixative than it should, so I will have to attach just a bit more plastic at either end (just a drop or two), in order to stop this happening. Then I should be good to go. Unless I swallow, or like Gordon says inhale the thing! I mostly don't use it, at least for no more than a couple of hours and just to give me a break!

Obviously I don't want to do this at all, but I feel that I have no choice! I do take it out before meals or sleep. The chewing gum still works too, though I have to wrap it around and under the other teeth, which feels more like just having a large blob of the stuff to chew on. Not good! I'm still scared for Thursday and really hope my dentist will do something to help me, though the way my mind works and the way my previous dentist wouldn't help, I'm not expecting that she will. But hopefully that's just my nervous mind overworking!
 
letsconnect

letsconnect

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Best of luck for Thursday, Gilbo - I hope the new dentist will be able to help :clover::clover::clover: (presuming they are still open for business)
 
G

Gilbo

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norwich, norfolk, uk
Unfortunately letsconnect and others, my supposed new dentist has just rang up and told me that my, urgently needed, first dental appointment has now been cancelled and that they will not be able to see me for at least three months, or maybe longer! Not even if it's an emergency, as I wouldn't count as a new patient until after my first appointment. I am sitting here scared out of my wits and not knowing where to turn. I may have to try ringing a few local private dentists to see if any of them will help. I have no money for such things, but desperate times call for desperate measures! Even the local emergency service who removed the tooth, has refused to let me see them again. Apparently clinical depression, anxiety and stress don't count as an emergency! I've been given a few diazepam to get me through until thursday and they help a bit, but what am I going to do when they run out?
 
M

MountainMama

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I can sympathize with you about the feeling of your tongue against the tooth edge driving you crazy. I had my lower first and second molar removed on the right side. My tongue actually became quite sore and irritated from rubbing against the premolar. I was getting implants, and the second molar was extracted 3 months before the first molar, so I had gaps for almost a year. It drove me crazy for about two months, then it gradually faded and didn’t bother me after that. I wore a nightguard at night, and that helped, because my tongue “didn’t know where to go”, if that makes sense. That helped give me the feeling of no spaces in my teeth.
It will get easier but it takes time. I had so much anxiety over my first molar extraction as it wasn’t healing well either. I did use a numbing gel on the side of my tongue, which helped quite a bit.
 
G

Gilbo

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Thank you MountainMama, that's just the kind of thing that I need to hear at the moment! I wondered if it would eventually get better and if I would get used to it. I'm sure we're not the first people to have teeth out, but my back tooth is placed at an awkward angle and really digs in! Maybe I should just take that out myself? Just kidding, as the trouble my emergency dentist went to, to remove the first molar, was quite astounding. I thought it would be stuck in there forever! Knowing what I know now, I wish it was! I used to have a mouthwash that was prescribed by a dentist decades ago. It was green and numbed most of your mouth up wonderfully. I could do with that now, yet can't find it anywhere. I too have a nightguard, yet it was made over ten years ago and the shape of it has changed a bit. This is still usable, yet sometimes makes my gums bleed due to working a bit like a brace. It does take away the feeling of having a space though and is one of the few methods I have to take my mind off it a bit. Though as it's so thick, it still makes me nauseous and I can't talk when wearing it due to that. Thanks again for your help!
 
letsconnect

letsconnect

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Sorry about the bad news - I hope that things will improve quickly for you and that you will eventually not notice the gap as much :grouphug:

Boots have some over-the-counter night guards on their website, you could have a look at them online and see if any of them might be of any use for short-term relief.
 
krlovesherkids777

krlovesherkids777

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Gilbo.. so sorry you are going through this. it is such a difficult time to get care right now.. I hope you can hang in there and get some relief when this settles down more. Everyone else gave some great advice.. just wanted to say I'm with you and hoping praying for some relief for you!!
 
G

Gilbo

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norwich, norfolk, uk
Thank you all! I was just reading a similar case, that of a 27 year old lady with a similarly 'missing' (extracted) molar like myself. Only that was last year, when treatment was still available. My problem is that, although I get used to this tooth digging in and can ignore it, thinking I'm getting back to normal, again today and probably following the bad news of my dentist closing for months, it's now really digging in and making me nauseous all over! (This seems to happen every other day!) I wish I could just get my tongue into a perfect place, so that I could ignore it! Speaking to another friend, she advised that I should call 111 and see if they can offer me any help or treatment. As usual with me, this is a mental health related problem, but one that can be solved very quickly! If I could just find someone to do it. I don't suppose anyone would know of a dentist (preferably in the East of England) who is still operating? The trouble would be proving to them that this IS an emergency! As they always think otherwise. I can imagine a rollercoaster of alternating pain and emotion over the coming months!
 
letsconnect

letsconnect

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Unfortunately it doesn't look as if it could be classed as a dental emergency, despite it being a mental health emergency that might be helped by a dentist's intervention. The definition of a dental emergency is here: https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissi...ds/sites/12/2015/11/74-dental-definitions.pdf

I don't believe any dentists in the UK are still open for anything but urgent treatment as defined by the link above - talk about bad timing :(. My heart goes out to you!!

Did you call 111? If so, what did they say?
 
G

Gilbo

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norwich, norfolk, uk
Not yet I haven't. I'm intending to do that later today (wednesday). I've just been reading up on the length of time molar sockets take to heal. Most articles say 3-7 days, with some being a maximum of two weeks. My socket, although it still looks fairly clean, is still wide open and doesn't look to have even started healing yet at over three weeks! Plus I also still have a large amount of pain around the gum and roof of my mouth. So maybe that could count as an emergency? As it definitely hasn't lessened much since the extraction. Also, having had to mostly eat on the right side of my mouth, the other top 1st molar is starting to really ache as well. Whether this is proof that my last dentist didn't do either root canal properly or not, I just couldn't say!

I find it hard to believe that something as serious as my constant 'tooth-digging-into-tongue' symptoms cannot be called an emergency, especially as this could end up pushing me over the edge before the 3 months or so are up! I just cannot imagine this much pain and trouble for such a long time. A helpline said 'Any dental problem should be addressed within 48 hours'. 'Emergency' should mean just that surely? Not related to this type of health problem or that one. Maybe I will have to try and convince my doctors that this is an emergency to me and they could have a word with some dental people? Maybe there should be a 'travelling dentist' service offered during these awful times? Why I haven't got through to 111 yet is partially as I've been very busy helping my disabled partner today, (which didn't help to take my mind off it) and also as the pain around my tooth socket, which is intense, is only really throbbing and almost unbearable while I'm eating. I keep having to call out if some food hits the sore spot! I haven't yet read the emergency definitions yet, as I know I'd probably lose all this typing! So I'm now going to do that and will definitely be calling someone later on! Thank you again.
 
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