I made the appointment

[letsconnect]

I guess the moral of the story is to always check any 'therapist's' credentials very thoroughly...

Yes - we've learnt this one the hard way - for anyone else interested, a good place to go is
https://www.bacp.co.uk

And for hypnosis, Mike has recently made a website for the British Society of Medical and Dental Hypnosis (Scotland), which also contains a links page with all the relevant societies (where you can find registered qualified practitioners, also for the US and Oz): [out-of-date link removed]

 

[DrMike]

Hi there,

'Let's' dropped me an email to ask for my opinion on this thread. (Although I've been busy, it was about time I registered in the new forum- sorry for the delay Let's!! )

I use regression/reliving techniques very infrequently, as there are often many other hypnotic techniques which are less traumatic and more effective. Regression can work well in some cases but usually I would only consider it if other techniques were not working as well as was hoped. For most people I describe the phobia management and hypnotic intervention as a bit like a taxi journey. I am the driver and the patient is the passenger, wanting to go to a specific place. The passenger should tell the driver where they want to be- eg free from fear, nice looking, healthy teeth, etc. I explain that to take them there, I do not need to know where they have been already! You don't get in a cab and tell the driver where you had lunch and what shops you went too- if you did you will be waiting for a while before you move, because he has no idea in which direction you want to go now! So once a destination has been set, the journey can begin- forwards. Once underway, the passenger can help direct the driver as to the best way to that destination. Sometimes this would involve a brief conversation about where you have been, but the main focus should always be on where you are going. Once you get there, the driver will drop you off, and you can enjoy being in this new wonderful place, to which your directions, and the drivers knowledge of the best route has led you.

It is obvious, but important to remember that you cannot change the past- not even 1 second of it. What you can change however, and sometimes by quite alot, is how you feel about the past. At the end of the day, nothing will change in the external world- what will change will be within you, and how you feel about the external world.

Care must be taken when using regression/reliving techniques and the therapist must be prepared to cope with any abreaction (crying, shivering etc.) These technique should always be patient led, and should always have some sort of resolution or new learning to begin to change how you feel about the past (because remember what has happend cannot be changed by revisiting it- it's how you feel that should change).

Strictly speaking the 'behavioural approach' regards the acquisition of phobic symptoms as the result of learning and their removal similarly being a process of new learning- and therefore that there is no need in this model of treatment to explore the circumstances of their original acquisition (ie no need to use regression techniques). The 'cognitive behavioural approach' similarly sees the phobia as in part at least based on faulty cognitions and the treatment as consisting of challenging and altering those cognitions- again in the here and now- not in the past. For some clients however, where their phobia is apparently the product of a single traumatic incident (or a series of similar ones) related to earlier dental treatment, it is sometimes helpful to go over the client’s memories of the incident with them (in hypnosis this would be done as a reliving of the episode) and to attempt to resolve it in some acceptable way. One strategy is to elicit the cognitions of the client as they recall (or relive) the episode and to challenge those cognitions directly (in hypnosis this is often done via an ego-state strategy when the older, wiser self (or similar) acts as the counsellor and offers support to the younger self present in the scene). In some cases (especially in hypnosis) re-scripting the outcome of the earlier episode is helpful- perhaps using skills and strategies that were not available to the individual at the time (the client taking control of the procedure for example). The resolution strategies adopted should be client-led and should enable any cognitive changes to be brought back to the present (where the procedure is carried out in hypnosis this can be reinforced as a post-hypnotic suggestion). To use regression type techniques, but not come to any resolutions or new learnings simply means you relive the horrible experience and can be a huge emotional strain, sometimes strengthening the phobia.

Whether these techniques are used or not, it is important for anyone who has had a bad previous experience not to forget what happened in the past, but they should not allow the past to prevent them having the dental treatment they wish as they deserve to have the healthy, attractive mouth that they want.

In other words- you don't need to forget the past and where you've been because that is after all, part of who you are now. Remember however to always focus more strongly on your destination, where you want to go and be- because that is where and who you are destined to and will become!

I hope that all this helps.

Please get in touch if you want any advice either through the forum or privately by emailing me at [email protected]

Regards,
Mike Gow

 

[vicki]

Hi,

Many thanks for taking the time to read this - it's much appreciated. At least now I am a bit more reassured that I'm not going completely round the bend (not yet anyway ). You've raised some interesting points, so now I have more questions to ask ... I'll reply when I've given it some more thought.

Vicki

 

[vicki]

I've thought about it some more now, this might be a long post , but here goes anyway;

During the hypnosis session, I relived four separate incidents. The first two were almost identical - one at 2 years old and one at 6 years old, but were nothing to do with dental treatment. Shortly after the first incident, I got taken to the dentists for the first time. I wasn't actually scared because I'd never been there before and didn't know what it involved - sort of like a blank canvas. However, once I got in there, because it was very similar in metaphoric/symbolic terms, I experienced flashbacks to what happened in the previous incident and experienced the same level of fear (I couldn't move or speak - amongst other things). It didn't help that this 'incident' was repeated again when I was 6 - only this time much worse. In a nutshell, it's been the same ever since and I've continued to be just as terrified. As a result of the fear, I have also had a couple of unpleasant experiences during dental appointments.

The problem seems to be in two parts; firstly the two incidents that occurred when I was younger seem to have some sort of invisible link to the present when in similar situations which still induces fear/panic. And, secondly, because I've always been terrified right from the first appointment, I don't know any different other than being like this (probably doesn't make any sense).

Although these memories don't affect me 99% of the time, they do at dental appointments and seem to be the main reason this started. I decided to try hypnosis as an attempt to sort of switch off this 'link' - except that nothing has changed as a result. For the second part, 'let's' gave me loads of advice/ideas to try on the old board so providing I can find the courage, I hope they will make a difference.

Other than the technique that was used a couple of weeks ago, is there any other way to resolve the first part of this problem?

The resolution strategies adopted should be client-led and should enable any cognitive changes to be brought back to the present (where the procedure is carried out in hypnosis this can be reinforced as a post-hypnotic suggestion). To use regression type techniques, but not come to any resolutions or new learnings simply means you relive the horrible experience and can be a huge emotional strain, sometimes strengthening the phobia.

Nothing new was learnt and there doesn't appear to be any positive change in the way I feel about these incidents (not that I purposely think about them anyway - they just come back uninvited to haunt me at every appointment). I'm not sure if there is a different way to see these events? (might be wrong though) but 'let's' sort of summed it up:

I had read about it before and never quite understood how it could work if the trauma was really intense, because even viewing something like, say, abuse from the perspective of a neutral bystander would be harrowing in my book?

---

When I was reading about it, I also thought that this technique would never have helped me - for the simple reason that looking at something which was plain wrong and, err, "evil" from a detached position changes absolutely nothing about the facts (just another flashback to add to the collection, LOL  ).

The only thing that has happened is that I've had a few nightmares since (not had these since I was little) and during the 'reliving' and for quite a while afterwards I was crying and shaking (not a nice thing to admit when you're 26!) - Is this normal? Whenever I've experienced hypnosis in the past I've always felt fairly chilled out and all is well with the world afterwards.

Whether these techniques are used or not, it is important for anyone who has had a bad previous experience not to forget what happened in the past, but they should not allow the past to prevent them having the dental treatment they wish as they deserve to have the healthy, attractive mouth that they want.

I am really trying not to let it prevent me having treatment - although I did avoid going for 7 years (which was absolute bliss - until my teeth started to hurt and I realised my avoidance strategy hadn't solved anything and that I still had the problem ). I also know I've got to sort it out one way or another because I don't like the thought of getting to about 70 years old and still being terrified - the dentures that I will probably have by then would fall out because I tremble too much!

 

[DrMike]

Hi Again,

I'll mull this over and get back to you with any advice I can give on any of the specific points here.
My immediate feeling is that as hypnosis is very effective with you, it probably will help in the future despite this recent negative experience. There are a huge number of other techniques which would be much easier on you and help you get to where you want to be (too many to list or describe in detail!). I certainly think it's worth you considering seeing someone who is going to be more qualified and experienced to help you than who you have previously seen- ie probably a qualified psychologist/hypnotherapist. Obviously I don't know where you are in the country, but I could suggest some names of who you might talk to. Would you be able to travel into London easily? I have an excellent suggestion of who you could contact if you were.
Keep well,
Mike

 

[Guest]

Vicky-just remember that the nightmares ....although disconcerting .....are just a part of who YOU are as a woman .to me -the important part is that you are aware of them- and arent denying it. The important point is that you are making the attempt to overcome this complex set of issues ....issues that are interfering with your ability to enjoy life ...and while you realize the path to coping with -or overcoming these issues isnt easy- youve already made progress towards eventual resolution down the road . Crying ....you needed to release something --so - you cried in order to release whatever it was. It takes guts , openness , and the ability to be REAL to express what may be - to you -painful -or shameful emotions....whether it be only to yourself - or to share that with others.To me -it is a sign of strength - a positive step - for you ....rather than weakness. I dont think Dr Mike will disagree with my observation . finally .....ithink that his suggestion that this be dealt with by a psychologist or other qualified proffessional is solid advice - but only when YOU are ready to take that next step-that step towards healing -and moving forward towards your goals and more happiness in life.You can get thru this, Vicky ......you just havent been firing on all cylinders . It will take time - and hard work.....but it can be done....and I feel you can do it !!!!!!Go For IT!!!!!!!

 

[vicki]

Thanks for the message Keith2 - it made me smile last night as I was reading it . I know it's going to be really hard (it was extremely difficult coming out of the closet on the old board to begin with), but everything else I've tried before hasn't worked, so I only have 2 options left; either continue as I have done - but if I do that, nothing will change and I'll still be terrified, or I try something else.

I never realised how complex this was until I started posting as I'd never addressed any of it before (too scary/sensitive - easier to ignore it and hope that one day it would magically disappear), but after the last appointment, I really struggled to control the fear and I think my cover has been blown. So, (judging by the way they were looking at me - and ) I have a sneaking feeling that I may have some awkward questions to answer (if I can speak) at the next appointment which is in 10 weeks - but I prefer to think of it as next year!. I'm also due to run out of toothpaste very soon (can only get it at the dentists) and I'm pretty ashamed that I have to persuade others into going to get it for me because I'm too scared to set foot inside the place unless I absolutely have to. So, I have to at least be able to go in there and get it myself (or go back to buying ordinary toothpaste but then I'd be found out and probably get a lecture ).  

Obviously I don't know where you are in the country, but I could suggest some names of who you might talk to. Would you be able to travel into London easily? I have an excellent suggestion of who you could contact if you were.

Erm.... I'm about 250 miles north of London (give or take a few miles!) - not much use is it

It is good to know that there are other ways to try and sort this out. 

 

[DrMike]

Hi Vicki,

Yes that would be a bit far to travel! My advice would be to perhaps have a look at the websites www.bsmdh.com and www.bsech.com and check the referral lists for your area. (These sites have listing of professionals who also have have a special interest in hypnosis).
I do agree with Keith2- he is 100% right that you should only take things further when you are ready to. However, as you have said you can either continue as you have done or take positive action to try something else.

Sometimes getting over a phobia is a bit like trying to, for example, stop smoking - in that you are changing something that has become part of who you are (although you don't want that part of you any more). Also, (keeping to the same comparison), some people stop smoking/conquer their phobia seemingly very easily with minimal intervention. Others find one technique helps, but another doesn't. Most smokers take a bit of time before they finally stop, experimenting with various ways of coping without the cigarettes, rather than it being a sudden transformation overnight. Conquering a phobia can be the same, so please don't despair if you are finding things difficult right now. The important thing is that you are doing something about it, and trying to seek out the right thing/technique for you. Sooner or later, you WILL find the right thing (be it hypnosis or anything else) that will allow things to begin to become easier. I have seen hundreds of people with severe phobias, and to begin with every single person understandably believes that they will never be free from it. Invariably every single person does conquer the phobia and get to where they want to be, it's just that everyone's journey and route to get there is a bit different!

As an aside - did you know that your doctor can prescribe you your toothpaste (I assume it may be a high Fluoride toothpaste such as Colgate Duraphat that you are buying).

Kind Regards,
Mike

 

[vicki]

Thank you for the advice - it helps . To be honest, I don't think I'll ever be 'ready' - if I was then I probably would have been able to try and address these fears a lot earlier and maybe things wouldn't have become so terrifying. But, I am ready to get rid of the weeks of sleepless nights, the panic and all the rest of it as it's really wearing me down now, so something has to change.

Yes I am using Duraphat - I tried to get it prescribed by my GP about a year ago, but she refused. I was told that it would be cheaper to buy it from the dentists (not really - it's only about 50p cheaper from there than it is as a prescription item but money obviously wasn't my reason for asking!) and she said they "don't do teeth" so therefore wouldn't prescribe it anyway .

It wouldn't really solve my problem either - however tempting it is, it's another form of avoidance. Also, I once forgot to buy it at an appointment and the next one was in 3 months. So after unsuccessful attempts at persuading someone else to get it for me, I figured that providing I was still brushing and flossing, 3 months with ordinary toothpaste wouldn't be a problem. When I went to the next appointment, it was like facing the Spanish Inquisition (I didn't realise that all payments and items purchased show up on computer records as well). I got "the lecture" about why I should use it and was asked why I hadn't bought any (when I managed to speak, I opted for my personal favourite "I forgot" - not very convincing I know!). The worst of it is, that my dentist at the time knew full well why I'd not been back for a tube, which didn't help.

Anyway sometime in the next two weeks I have really got to go and get some Duraphat by myself somehow (can't believe I'm even typing this as it sounds so stupid ).

 

[Guest]

Vicky- Thank you.Whether youare at the point where youre able to begin to lok at some of these issues or not ...just keep in mind that you are the captain of your ship- so to speak...you Are the one in control of your reaction ...or lack thereof. When you are ready to take the next step ...you will -on your terms, Vicky. Whats tough here for you is not knowing what might work------and i have to add this...that -if you do choose a course of therapy -----you might discover additional ways of dealing with -and hopefully- defeating this. you may also wish to lookat other areas of your life that you arent happy /satisfied with - but -again..thats YOUR decision to make.keep plugging away- eventually youll get the break thats been eluding you, Vicky. As far as the direct cross on why you didnt get that toothpaste the last time you were in -i would have been quite cheesed /pissed off - and would have given them a good lecture -only because I feel that the response from them was out of line and unproffessional,,,,IMO --period---not to mention insensitive as H###!!!!!! I look at it differently- i guess - I dont have tolerence for that kind of crap-and i,m not afraid to voice my opinion - even if its not appreciated. good luck , vicky...you CAN do this ---have a little faith in yourself...kid.

 

[vicki]

Thanks for all your messages everyone - it helps so much (probably more than people realise )

Whats tough here  for  you is  not knowing  what  might  work

Very true - not knowing what will happen is also pretty bad as well .

As  far  as  the  direct cross on why  you didnt  get that toothpaste  the last time  you  were in -i would  have  been quite cheesed /pissed off - and  would  have  given them  a good  lecture -only  because  I feel that the response  from them was out  of line  and  unproffessional,,,,IMO --period---not  to  mention  insensitive  as  H###!!!!!! I look at it  differently- i guess - I dont have tolerence  for  that  kind  of crap-and  i,m not afraid  to  voice  my opinion - even if  its  not appreciated.

In any other situation, I probably would have been able to voice my opinion (pretty good at giving lectures myself actually ). I realise that 'the lecture' I received wasn't exactly the best way to approach the situation especially as he knew that I was terrified (the panic attack I had during a filling once probably gave the game away ) and so therefore knew that the reason I'm unable to buy the stuff is because I'm too scared to go in there unless I absolutely have to - even stepping inside the building induces fear just as intense as an actual appointment.

I don't think there's as much chance of it happening again (I hope) because the dentist I have now asks me at every appointment whether duraphat has been prescribed which means he's either got the memory span of a goldfish or doesn't check patient records to remind himself who he's seeing before they walk through the door.

Either way, I have to go and buy some toothpaste because I have to try to beat this and I have to start somewhere. So, the date is set - a week on friday (25th Nov). I've got the day off work anyway - I'll probably need it as I have a feeling it will take several attempts and it scares the cr*p out of me just thinking about it, but it has to be done . Hopefully, if I can make it through the door, I might be able to hand the letter over as well (I'm writing that this week).

 

[letsconnect]

I've taken this quote from another thread ("The next round"):

it really helps to read what other people write as I've got a letter to my dentist to compose this week and I'm really really stuck for words!

Don't know if that's of any use - but if you find it really difficult to know where to start or what to say, one idea would be to simply open textedit and start typing anything that comes into your head, in a stream-of-consciousness sort of way (e. g. start off by saying that you don't know where to start, but here are some of the problems you have). This may turn out very long and emotional - don't worry about it! Then sleep over it, and the next day (or even two days later) try and edit it down. Or you might find that you want to rewrite it altogether. This version should be a little more concise. Then sleep over it again, and you might find that figuring out what the salient points are will become much easier at this stage. Taking it one step at a time rather than trying to compose "the perfect letter" from scratch might be a lot easier - especially if you don't know where to start . Just an idea

 

[vicki]

Thanks for that, I guess I'm just a bit lost for 'inspiration' at the moment. This is the hardest thing I've had to write in a long long time.

Anyway, I've created a TextEdit file and have rather imaginatively called it 'letter' - a suitably anonymous title and it's buried in a secret location on my mac at work so I'll email it to myself at home when I leave tonight.

I haven't typed anything in it but once I get started I have a feeling that 'draft one' like you said, could be rather long and emotional. But I'd rather try and keep the emotional bit out of it as much as I can because I don't want to come across as an emotional basketcase!

Anyway, here goes with draft one... (fingers crossed).

 

[vicki]

Well, I eventually managed to type 'draft one' and it's rather long (so what's new - I specialise in long messages )! I'm now onto the third attempt which is a tiny bit shorter but I'm still really struggling with it In a way I suppose this is going to make it even more scary for the next appointment because then they'll know about my fears. Although they probably know something's 'not quite right' at the moment as I probably behave really strangely in trying to cover my anxiety/panic up.

Can't believe I'm finding this letter so hard (this is before I've even made it into the building to buy the duraphat on friday  ).


Friday is getting closer and there isn't a blue sofa in the world that's big enough for me to hide behind right now.

 

[happydancyfeet]

Friday is getting closer and there isn't a blue sofa in the world that's big enough for me to hide behind right now.
Posted by: vicki Posted


I can relate to that vivky.my appointment is tomorrow morning and I can already feel the panic rising.

 

[vicki]

I can relate to that vivky.my appointment is tomorrow morning and I can already feel the panic rising.  

I didn't sleep last night so the panic is rising for me as well now The prospect of just going into the building is causing just as much anxiety as when I go for an appointment   . I can't believe it's making me feel this way. My blood pressure feels as though it's through the roof and my heart is racing more frequently now . I took a dose of beta blockers this morning so that has helped a bit. I just hope I can go through with this. (Still stuck on version 3 of the letter! )

 

[letsconnect]

I'm sorry to hear this is proving so upsetting . If you don't feel ready yet, maybe you could get someone else to get the Duraphat for you, and send the letter by mail

 

[gdentalfear]

Dear Vicki,

just to let you know that I am thinking of you today.

G.

 

[vicki]

Thanks for the messages . Yes it is scaring me just as much as an actual appointment but I've got to go in there somehow and get the Duraphat, otherwise it feels like I'll never make any progress with this (probably doesn't make sense) .

Also, I can't ask someone else to get it for me because none of the people I know who are patients at the same place have got an appointment before my next one (e.g. "while you're there, would you get me some toothpaste - I'd go myself but I'm a bit busy right now.") - otherwise I might ask them, but if asked someone to go at any other time, they'd want to know why.

I need to go into town to pick up a prescription from the chemists anyway, so I'm having a long hot soak in the bath first and trying to pretend it's tomorrow already.

 

[vicki]

Well, I'm back and...

...I now have 2 tubes of Duraphat!!!

To say I'm relieved would be an understatement - I did manage to get the toothpaste but it didn't really go according to plan. After what seemed like forever walking around town (it was probably about an hour), I finally walked up the road and went in.

I picked a time when I thought there'd be less people about and when I walked through the door, the main waiting area/reception was empty (so at least I wouldn't have an audience if I did have a panic). I was reasonably OK until I got up to the desk to ask for the toothpaste and then the horrible drilling/sucking noises started which made me very but I'd already started to speak so I couldn't stop. She looked at me as though I was a bit odd as I found it very difficult to speak without stammering . Anyway, I got as far as her passing me the Duraphat and me giving her the money and then I heard voices coming from upstairs. I didn't think anything of it for a couple of seconds but then they got louder because they were coming downstairs.

As I put out my hand to get the change from the cash I'd given her, I suddenly recognised one of the voices as being the last person in the whole world that I wanted to see i.e. *the dreaded dentist*. That changed everything (I figured he'd be well out of the way seeing patients). I went from being extremely anxious but just about coping, to panic stricken and looking like   in a matter of seconds. I knew I had to get out of there as quickly as possible but because I was in such a hurry, shaking like a leaf and with the letter in my hand, I dropped not only the change but also the contents of my purse all over the floor . I must have looked a right state because the nurse behind the desk asked me if I was OK (I managed to say "Mmmm") and then said "Are you sure you're OK? You're shaking and you look like you've seen a ghost". I can honestly say, I would much rather have seen a ghost than have been in there at that moment.

Anyway after what seemed like ages, I managed to get everything back into my purse and get to the door (with the letter still in my hand - I didn't get that far) just as my dentist appeared in reception. Because I was so wound up, I actually threw up in the drain in the car park at the front of the surgery! (I really hope nobody saw me!!).

The moral of the story this time is: always pay by credit card, then you can't drop the change all over the floor!

I'm glad I managed to do it because I've proved that I can go in there without completely losing it (unless any dentists happen to be around or if I have to go *upstairs* for an appointment), but I am disappointed that I didn't hand the letter over . So, time for plan B which is to post it (I might change some bits of it again though first).