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I thought I was anxious before...

C

CrabbyRex

Junior member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
3
Location
Orlando FL
I have and have had anxiety and panic attacks for several years varying in form from normal worry to absolutely illogical concerning most aspects of life. I am learning how to handle it, its a slow crazy road but I'm getting there. Sometimes there is just no helping it, like when it concerns the dentist and your teeth.

I have had issues with the "dentist" since I was in my teens, mostly because it hurt and later on because they were confusing and expensive. I have hit one of the biggest obstacles yet just recently.

Over the past 5-7 years my teeth have rapidly gone downhill and in the last 2 I have had more decay and pain than ever. About a month and a half ago a tooth started to throb, and I just could not get it under control. I went to a dentist about a week later and confirmed my worst thoughts. I need full restoration as he put it or rip 'em all out and get dentures.

I will spare you all the details, for now, of last month and jump straight into the issue I am dealing with now.

I am on my 4th opinion, and they have all been different. YES 4 different dentists, it sounds extreme and is. The first 2 really dropped the ball on providing information and the care I thought should be provided if I'm going drop $7k plus some. I went to the 3rd in the hopes of moving forward with this process and not hiding in a hole. The 4th came as a referral form the 3rd.

To get to the meat and bones of this, I really liked the 3rd dentist but they said that I could save some money on extractions and denture by going somewhere else and then I could go back to them when I was ready to get the implant process started.

Here is the kicker, the more expensive place wants to remove all teeth, not worth saving. The cheap place wants to try and save 7 bottom teeth.

I am trying to make the best decision medically AND for the future. If I save teeth, awesome but if they are going to be a constant source of agitation and pain (and money loss)....

I was also planning on having bone grafts put in, to stave off bone loss and in preparation for grafts in the future. One place says great go for it, the other says that it is a waste of money and that they check in a year to see what, if any, grafts are needed.

I am at a loss .... Who would you trust? Big fancy, highly rated, top 10 dentist or the super cheap, fast referred by fancy dentist place?
 
Hi there, speaking only from own experience and without any medical degree. I am going through something similar, loads of decayed teeth, 9 extractions (molars), some teeth saving processes, and later on implant.
What I have learnt from my own misery and research is theory that once a tooth is ill, you can never truly make that disappear. In a way it will always be corrupted.
But there are a variety of methods that can delay loosing the tooth. This delay could mean 5-10-15-30 years or even more. Depending in the person, their body, their health, their mouth, their genetics, their lifestyle, the dentist etc etc So many factors.
There is also a natural biological tooth loss time frame that you are up against, that above 45-50 there will come a moment when loosing your teeth will have a higher chance due to tear and wear.
For example there can be that you fill a tooth but due to many reasons you just make a delay for 5-10 years. Then you might need to crown and root canal the tooth and you might win yourself another 10-15 year, and you might still loose that tooth down the line and need any type of replacement for another 10-20 years. All together this way you might have delayed the loss for 20-30 years, so it is actually a really good time frame. And this doesn't mean that for those 10-15-30 time periods you are in pain with that tooth. You just upgrade it when it comes to that. On the other hand any of these processes can last you 30-40 years without a problem. Probably thats why doctors actually get medical degrees :giggle:

My experience is that dentists usually like to conserve whatever they can. Because the natural structure of your tooth in your mouth is still the best solution of all. Hence they would rather do first fillings, crowns, root canals, because even if the tooth is healed, semi dead, or dead but the anatomy is still worth keeping, it should benefit you more. Whereas extractions temper with the structure of your mouth, and bone grafts and implants are amazing in a way but still they are an alien structure. If this makes sense.

But thats just my two cents.

Also it is so hard to choose dentists because even a super fancy high profile expensive dentist can make mistakes, and a cheaper dentist can be also amazing. And the other way around. I have all my life gone to private dentists, because in the European health care system I would never trust underpaid, weary, disillusioned doctors if it comes to complex health issues. But these things are also personal behaviours. A less fancy dentist can also be enthusiastic and amazing, and a fancy dentist can also be cocky and superficial. I would say listen to your gut. Where you feel comfortable, which dentist do you feel that you would trust with the whole process. I think it is really awesome that you went around and asked for 4 opinions.
If you don't mind sharing or have the time I personally would be interested in what exactly the problem is and what were those 4 different opinions.
 
HI

Thanks for the reply, those are are the thoughts going through my head. Just because a dentist can afford to build a fancy new practice with all the new tools does not necessarily mean they are better as a dentist, after all a degree is a degree right? Let me add that I understand that there are different specialties and of course "better" schools but the curriculum is the same if not similar, at least here in the USA. try my hardest to not judge any one, you know we all do it to some degree.

I also understand that keeping teeth if possible is the way to go. I just want to make the most medically sound decision, IF those teeth are in fact in 'good standing' (chuckle) then by all means lets keep them for as long as can. However, if its simply a matter of they aren't as bad as the others but I need to spend an additional 5k and have a boatload of work, that will hurt, and sill have issues with them then I will not be sorry to see them go. Don't get me wrong, I am sad that I wont have any natural teeth and I am dealing with that issue as best I can, but I am trying to look forward and not dwell on what I have or have not done and move forward.

I have no issues with sharing, especially if it will help me and/or someone else!!

Let me start by saying that I have anxiety and fear of the unknown, and that really gets me going when I have to place trust in someone I don't really know. It helps when that person is a professional, or supposed to be, but turns my world upside down when I find that the professional makes a wrong move or is contradicted by another.

OK here goes, sorry about that. The first dentist I went to see was very nice seemed down to earth and willing to help, his staff was great too. Sat me down, did my x-rays and poked around in my mouth. Then he confirmed that I am in fact a lost tooth cause, as much as I had figured that was the case and tried to prepare myself it still took my breath. He explained that there was nothing to do with the tip except pull them and that the bottoms may have some teeth that could be saved but the amount of work and pain and cost to save them did not outweigh pulling them and moving forward. It was just too great an amount of work. He did go over what was necessary to fix them and his thoughts on the subject. We decided it was best to move forward and not dwell. I decided after 3 weeks of dealing with some crippling side affects of the the infection and trying like hell to get some time with the dentist to talk about my options again so that I might get out of pain faster, that it was time for a second opinion. The wait for the procedure was 3 weeks and they did not want to pull any of the teeth that were causing pain.

The infection paired with my neck issues were and still are some of the worst pain I have ever dealt with, I am getting better thankfully. It impaired my ability to think clearly and as thoroughly as I normally do as well as making any time on the computer really hard due to severe headache. I powered through and called ALL the dentists within 5 miles, which is a lot as I live right on the edge of a large city. 10 or so dentists called, in and out of network, and I didn't feel much better about my situation.

So I looked a little further and used some different search terms, which is so frustrating as it DOES matter which way you search. I finally found one that seemed doable, the receptionist was very helpful and got me in the next day. I had another flare of my issues that morning and did not feel great, shaky and dizzy with a huge headache and lets not forget anxious about another new person poking around in my mouth. I go back and get more x-rays, a lot of xrays and then finally the Dr. pokes her head into frame and starts poking around. She does a massive exam of counting and poking and pulling and wiggling. Then whips my chair to upright, the whole time I am uber dizzy and by this point I feel I am going to fall over. We start going over the xrays and exams she did and she is thoroughly explaining what is wrong with each tooth and I am desperately trying to hang on and retain this information, thats when she looks at me in the eye for the first time and asks if I am ok, not really but give me a minute and I will be. I gather myself and she says, let me get right to it, you have a lot of problems the entire top cannot be saved and neither can this one and this one, BUT these 4 can be and we will save them. So now I am gobsmacked, wait what? Save teeth, what does that even mean now. She leaves to go right up a treatment plan and comes back and explains it, says that she wants first of all to get be back ad clean the ones she wants to save and do a probe to make sure she can save them, and do I want to take any of the immediate problem teeth out now....what? NOW? yeah we can do that now. I decline as my world is spinning in more ways than 1.

I get home stop spinning and ease my headache so I can discuss this with my fiance. We decide to move forward and get the teeth cleaned and the tops and other problem teeth pulled so that I can start to feel better and get healing. They give me an appoint that same fri I was there for the coming monday, wow so quick, so nice, so understanding. Over the weekend, I realize I may be moving a tad fast as there were some very important things I had discussed with the Dr. because I was spinning. So I called and asked if we could just do the cleaning and probe and if I could have a consult as I had not spoken with the Dr. about my options. Sure, no problem come on in and we will get it done. WOW, what kind of wonder is this place!

I go in and meet the hygienist, sit down and the bottom falls out. She was not really clear on what was happening or where it was happening nor did anyone know how to operate the computer. I remain calm, its all in my head. Breath, its a monday, no big deal. You are going to get those teeth cleaned and then she is going to numb you and the probe those pockets and you will get to keep teeth.....WRONG. STAB in my gums with the probe, what the, wait, but I cant because she is alllll in my mouth and trying to work the computer and talking to the other lady and the other other lady. OK, suck it up you can handle this. I did and now it was time to clean those puppies....WRONG. NOW I am numbed, but in the front and now there is a tool gnawing at my front teeth, which according to everyone are trash and going, possibly today. Oohh that hurts, no it doesn't, ok fine..nono that hurts no it doesn't you are numb. So this goes on and on with me telling her that yes I am numb but its not my gums that hurt its the teeth that feel like she is going to pull out because they are being held in by those barnacles, as she affectionately calls them while she showing me when she pulls them out and telling me and the rest of the office how bad my teeth are. Anyway, suck it up right? You did this to yourself, she is a professional, rude, but a professional and now she is going to clean the teeth I do get to keep...WRONG. Lets polish and now your done. Now the Dr. is here poking around again, you sure you got these teeth? Yes Dr. (liar) Oh wow these are really loose now (PAIN as she wiggles the already painful now more loose, and now sensitive to temp teeth). We go over exactly what she said last time, her plan hasnt changed we get to keep to keep teeth. Ok Doc I have some questions for you now. She seems a little perturbed by this stands and prepares to listen. So I tell her that my plan was to hopefully have implants and overdenture in a few years and that I was told I could do bone grafts now to prepare for that. OH NO, we do NOT do that, we let it all heal naturally and then when its time we go in and do another surgery. WHAT? Now I am really lost, because I currently have 2 grafts. As I try to ask her more questions she headed off another direction and the hygienist is leading me towards the front telling me I am gonna schedule to get my upper rights taken out, which they can't because its already gone.

I kind of float through the rest of it, checking out and making an appointment for more teeth scraping hell, and to pull teeth. I make out to the truck and absolutely lose it. One of the worst panic/anxiety attacks I have ever had. It takes me a good 45 min to calm myself to the point I can have any kind of conversation. I am lost, confused, scared and now humiliated. Did I mention that the back of the office where you get work done is like garage, a bunch of open bays 5 feet apart where everyone can here everyone else, like when they say your teeth are bad, look at the size of that tartar barnacle, I bet you haven't gotten cleaned in 20 years huh? Yeah, so theres that.

Now I am back to square one because there is no way I can ever go back there. I am thoroughly defeated, and hove no idea what do. Thankfully, my anxiety has one saving grace, it makes me mad as hell. So I burn some of it off by dealing with all the other issues that have been piling up. Finally I get some clarity on my teeth, stop being a scared ignorant child, that is not me at all, I love to question and I love information, so why I am taking this. Because you are scared, these are your teeth but thats OK. Whats not OK is people taking advantage, not giving you time to ask questions, not relieving your pain, etc.

I had found this 3rd dentist right in the very beginning but had put them aside because they were farther away and seemed way out of my price range, they were ranked in the top ten dentists of Orlando for several years running . What the heck, I gave it a chance and called. She was appalled at what had happened, I only told her a little of it. Told me to come in 2 days for a free consult and not to cancel because this a $400 consult I am getting, its at least an hour and to bring all my question with me. I called and cancelled all my other dentists appointments and got my last xrays.

I go in early fri morning, they look at my x-rays and discuss my issues and options, that those teeth might be saved but would need so much work and money that its really unreasonable. The associate Dr. answered all of my questions with care and even went into more detail, also this was the first time I had actually seen physical denture models. We were at just about an hour and I was very satisfied, now time for the money nurse. She was very nice, and we had a private office to talk in, and she went over all the treatment plan and even did some fast math on going all the way to implants and/or overdentures. The whole time I am looking at the $12k price tag for just extraction and denture with bone grafting. She says, I know thats a scary number but I want you to try something. We refer to a place who can do this part of the plan much cheaper. I am floored, she doesn't want my money and here is a place that will not break us. She says they have referred some of their current patients there and they were very happy with the service and to have saved so much money they could go back to get implants later.

Its my local Affordable Dentures franchise. Well, immediately I tense up and I tell her that I don't want to place an early judgement but I have heard some bad things. She says that she has too but not about their local place, and they have worked with this other place for years and some of the staff there even worked with this dentist many years ago at another practice. Then she says that she thinks we should just go and walk in and see how it feels, if they are helpful then see what you think of the price, if you just don't like the feel of it then we will figure something out. What kind of place is this, it certainly cannot be a dentist, telling me to go somewhere else to save money and actually answering my questions.

We figured at this point what have we got to lose, he was already off work lets go and walk in. Now, I knew to expect a clinic atmosphere but it wasn't too bad and they said they could get me in right away for a consult and that because I had my previous xrays they would do a panoramic for free. What kind of dreamland have I entered, I must not have woke up this morning and this all a dream right?

In I go, bite on this, whir goes the machine. She gets right down to business telling me my problems and that all the tops have to go, this tooth goes and so does this one. BUT these 7 teeth can stay. Now hold on, what? SEVEN teeth stay? Yes There is no need to remove these, they need a little bit of work but mostly its just you maintaining them with flossing and brushing and cleanings. I tell her I just came from Dr. Soandso and they said they could not be saved. She is adamant about the fact that these teeth would be saved even though their practice cannot do the work to save them. I finally get her to admit that its possible they couldnt be saved and to give me a quote even though she didnt like it but she would pull them all if I wanted. Then I ask about the bone grafts, because they do them there. There was no way they they would do bone grafts at time of extraction, in her opinion it is a waste of money unless you are putting immediate implants in because of the perio that I have it would all just resorb or get infected because of the bad bone I have.

We walk out with 2 quotes and way more questions. Believe it or not, I was actually happy, mostly, with their service. I appreciated her abruptness and unwillingness to budge based on her opinion. It was the fact that she explained things and it felt like it really came from the heart and no just a diagnosis. The front desk could use some Miss Manners lessons but hey.

Now I want to call the 3rd dentist again to get an opinion on that, as she said to do so if I wanted but they were not even supposed to be open on fri and there for closed early. So I am stuck until mon with out a professional opinion.

What would you all do? Who do you trust?
 
Oh wow what a crazy but also positive story in a way. :scared:

I admire you for getting al these extra opinions despite all the fear and anxiety. It is probably the best thing you can do, but not many people get around to do it. I chickened out from it myself. But luckily I found my dream dentist for the first meeting and because I was so aware of the state of my teeth, all the things he said always sound right. So I never bothered to go to someone else.

So by these 4 opinions it kind of sound like those few teeth in question are borderline and I can totally see with my amateur eye that they all kind of are right in their own way just trying to approach with different methods. It sounds silly because they are sort of contradicting but they are also not. But I am just an amateur brainstorming.
Did I understand correctly that you said that after the cleaning the teeth in question were loose? Are they just loose, because you gum line moved back and your gums are in a bad shape? Or are the teeth themselves decayed? Do they have cavities? Are they vital? Are they infected? Because if the teeth themselves are in a good shape, but maybe just the gum problems are hurting them, then they can be saved. No idea exactly how but I have seen pictures and vids of some hyper-fancy gum surgeries for similar things. :dunno: Did they tell you how they are planning to save them?
I mean I can imagine a pan that you get implant supported dentures for the top, then they save the ones on the bottom, and fill out the rest with implants as well. But I can also totally imagine with just going full on implant dentures up and down. It kind of is probably equally complex and a good solution both ways hence you are getting contradicting answers. :dunno: Hope this makes sense. I would if I were you totally confront the dentists and explain to them how this contradiction came up and you are confused. Ask them to explain to you why they think they are worth saving or why they think they are not worth saving.

For the rest. I was extracted 9 teeth and I have to wait 2 month now for my mouth to heal naturally before we start examining and panning the bone grafting and implanting process. That is because my mouth has been through this trauma, 9 teeth are lot of extractions and my doc - and I also feel this to be right - wants my body to do as much natural work as possible. So what comes in "unnaturally" makes less mess - so to say. Just saying this as you shouldn't be surprised for a doctor telling you to wait and heal before marching in with implants. I have seen vids of immediate bone grafts etc but those things usually show one tooth, never really talk about complicated cases where you have loads or all teeth extracted. So I assume there is a difference in procedure in there. And it makes sense. Loads of extractions, bone loss, infections, poor oral hygene is something your mouth need time to recover from. And implants require a healthy mouth in order to be super successful.

It is really really cool from the fancy doc to refer you to somewhere else. I know it comes surprising but I can totally imagine this happening. I have had similar experience. Here is the thing. It is really cool to keep one doc to oversee all the procedure just so they can be really involved in your case from start to finish. But financially it is true that if you invest bigger amount, invest it in the implant/denture journey and if you can divide it up and go to a decent but cheaper place to get the extractions done, that makes sense. But I would keep the same doc for post surgery healing follow up and implant/dentures.

One advice on the second doctors case, where they did the cleaning. No, you don't deserve any of that. Don'T suck it up, don't suffer through it. Don't ever let any doctor treat you like that. Know that you can always stop the dentist, hygienist whom ever if they are hurting you and if you don't feel OK with the treatment. Avoid places that don't do that for you!

And last, I totally agree on the point about fancy dentists. Hence what I said, it is very hard to judge. Especially at the beginning what and why you are paying more. Because the amount of money you spend doesn't really mean anything. You can just as well pay loads of money to someone less good, or not enough money for someone really good. My personal experience with this is not about equipment or office set up or degree. My personal experience is the human factor. I am paying shitloads of money (hahah local standards, they would be pennies with those US prices) for my private dentist and what I am getting in return are two dentist who love their jobs, who are really good, who are maximalist, who walk around in their clinic being enthusiastic about their patients, really truly caring. Not pretending at all. They are just rich and can afford to not to worry about life and do what they love for a living. And on the other hand I see doctors in the non private sector who are as I said overworked, tired and annoyed. For whom I am just the next item in the chair. And I would not dare to put my life into their hands.
 
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