Opinions on Dental Spas and "Dental Vacations?"

[TimidLady]

For the past few years I have occasionally heard celebrities, usually after rehab, refer to going to dental spas to fix up their mouths which were harmed by drink and drugs, abuse, etc. I assumed this is similar to expensive celebrity drug rehab centers that have massage and skincare, etc. I know someone who has become very interested in dental spas and has not ever taken a single vacation in life nor traveled very far but is tempted to try this. My friend is so phobic that visiting dental sites like this one isn't possible apparently (fear of horror stories). No drug history or alcohol history, just couldn't afford dentistry for a long time and now has a mouth that is missing teeth, has broken teeth, etc. I think the phobia was caused entirely by embarrassment and being treated badly in stores and other public places.

I looked on the internet and have seen some places that call themselves dental spas. Some of them appear to be pretty much standard high end dentists with fancy chairs and maybe tea served. They might be very good but I don't think of those as spas. Some look more like health spas/clinics and seem to offer massage, skincare and other features I associate with spas along with dental care. They look pretty expensive but my friend seems to feel a dentist who has dealt with rock stars won't judge and will recreate a good smile. Are these places all expensive scams, are some of them good? Are they likely to push unneeded or inadvisable cosmetic dentistry? I think the major appeals of such places are probably confidentiality, the emotional shift of considering dental work to some sort of pampering luxurious experience, and this idea of coming back with that perfect smile you always wanted but could never afford. I worry it might be a big letdown. Also what about dental care vacations/dental tourism, i.e. going to other parts of the world that have good dental and medical, but are more affordable. I've heard of people going to Asia for both medical and dental care that's too expensive in the US. I don't want to be discouraging to anyone who is taking the huge leap of getting treated, whatever it takes to get there. On the other hand I am worried some of these relaxing sounding options might provide bad care or push work that doesn't need to be done. Captive audience issue seems possible.

I put this thread here because I expect there may be some differences of view and strong opinions.

 

[Pianimo]

I think this is sure to be a YMMV kind of issue, and that dental spas - like any other type of dental/medical practice - will vary, even greatly, from one to another.

That said, speaking solely from my own experience - in the UK - the most recent practice I have been to calls itself a spa. And, as you implied, all that seemed to mean is that it's a high-end private practice. They no doubt offer more cosmetic treatments than (in the UK) NHS practices, as well as some beauty and skin treatments etc - although actually these seem to be increasingly commonly offered in 'ordinary' private practices too. Plus they have 'luxuries' like free wifi in the waiting room, cups of tea and coffee being offered, and so on. But, for most people there, I think - even those having a 'smile makeover' - it's still not generally seen as a 'spa', just as their (above-average) dentist.

I did also, one iffy day aside, feel extremely well looked after there; but I personally believe that that is predominantly, if not entirely, thanks to the people who were treating me, not the place. The more-spa-like-than-clinical decor/atmosphere is a positive though.

As for pushing extra/cosmetic treatment, to my memory there were plenty of adverts about the place, but I don't think anyone ever mentioned or suggested anything to me at all. In fact, they asked me at the beginning to fill in a questionnaire with what my goal was - which was a healthy mouth - then my treatment plan was simply based around what I needed.

Anyway, I have now left there because it was too expensive for me to stay. So, essentially, in my experience it is as you said - just an expensive dental practice. And, in my case, a very good one.

But, as I said to start with, I'm sure YMMV. I think the best way to find a good dentist, especially for an anxious/phobic person, is by personal recommendation (or the dentist finder on this site). The most luxurious dental spa could still have a dreadful dentist working there. For me, the right person counts most.

 

[comfortdentist]

Thanks for your post I am a somewhat conservative dentist who believes in just treating patients nicely. I always thought that the dental spa idea was a big marketing ploy that takes away from the important aspect of the dentist and their staff.

 

[TimidLady]

Thanks for the responses. I didn't even think of dental spas myself when I nerved up to go back to a dentist. I just asked my GP for a referral to her own dentist, because I trust her judgement and she is a minimalist. She never pushes me to have any expensive tests I don't absolutely need, which is somewhat rare around here these days for economic reasons in my country. Her teeth are natural looking and that's what I wanted. What I got was a very caring family dentist who is willing to refer me if I need a complicated service not available there.

I can see why the dental spa concept is appealing to people in the public eye. I also understand why women are attracted to things like this, because we are expected by society to somehow be beautiful and flawless no matter what age we are, what medical and financial situations we are in. Looks can affect career, relationship possibilities, so many things. All we should have to worry about is our health and that everything in our mouths is healthy, painfree, and functions. It shouldn't matter if our fillings were made of some bright purple substance, but of course, it would. Unfortunately, there is an impossible standard set by the media that people internalize. So the idea of going to a spa is probably cocoon symbolism. Do you feel ugly these days? Come out a butterfly! Of course they can't promise that outright in their advertising. This I really feel is the unspoken promise, and I worry it plays on the deepest fears of women (maybe men also because men are expected to look "fit"). In particular when researching this I discovered there are even dental cruises. That sort of alarms me because for half a second it sounds interesting, and then being me I started wondering what kind of laws apply to dentistry in international waters, what sort of accredation the staff have, etc. I wondered what happens if someone stops breathing under sedation. There would be no hospital nearby. I'm sure they get a lot of dental patients though, because the word "cruise" is glamorous and has the connotation of relaxation. How could you be stressed or in pain on a cruise, right? However, if something went wrong or the care was poor, I think it could turn into a terrible nightmare. There'd be no opportunity to go elsewhere if you met the staff and got a bad feeling, either. Situations like that would make me panic, but my friend is more of an optimist than I am.

I guess I am probably a bit paranoid. Once in awhile things that sound too good to be true do turn out to be true, but usually they don't for me. I think my friend feels you get what you pay for. I don't think that's always the case, either. My mother had a beautiful full set of crowns and bridges. They were costly, and they looked super, but the dentist she had at the time messed up her bite badly, and she developed TMJ after that.

It's nice to know that the place you went to was competent and caring, Pianimo. You're probably right that dental spas vary widely in quality, like everything else which depends on individual humans.

 

[brit]

I wanted everyone else to answer before me because as you would expect I have a view lol.

When I was in a previous location I was having a hard time finding a dentist I was happy with and even the second one I chose who was a nice person, was too clinical for my liking and they wore white coats. From this website I came across the spa dentistry concept and thought, yeah that's just what I want and need.
However it really did not exist at all in that EU country. You were doing well if you got effective anaesthetic there.

It seems to only partially exist in my current location at the cosmetic end of things and I suspect in reality it would just be like a high-end practice with maybe a massage available; and you would likely be given the 'smile makeover' hard sell which is not the conservative approach dentists would choose for their own teeth on the whole.. totally agree about the media hard-sell towards women on all aspects of appearance being a negative influence.

However one person did mention a dental practice where you got a hand massage at the end of your visit. I googled the website and there were no details of the dentists who worked there.
That is a total RED FLAG!!!! That means they can get just anyone in from an agency on a particular day.

I totally agree that 'distraction, pleasant non-clinical environments' are 'the way to go' to make it easy for patients to feel comfortable. But I think this is most reliably found at a high-end practice with a 'patient lounge' with sofas instead of wooden chairs in a row etc etc. and where you can be on first name terms with your dentist.

However the most important thing is the dentist, their approach towards you is what allows your anxiety to subside in reality, the quality of their work, the painlessness and the durability of it, is what makes it worthwhile to invest money in keeping your teeth for life.

I think your friend going abroad or on a cruise for treatment is always risky and would not advise it. I'm sure she could find a reputable dentist with pleasant premises somewhere in her location. If she does go somewhere she should check out the reputation of the person treating her and never go along somewhere not knowing who that person will be.

This dentist has the right idea on distraction:

The Dental Environment

Dentist Lloyd Jerome gives tips for designing a dental practice that makes people feel at ease and lowers levels of dental anxiety.

www.dentalfearcentral.org

 

[Pianimo]

I didn't even think of dental spas myself when I nerved up to go back to a dentist. I just asked my GP for a referral to her own dentist, because I trust her judgement and she is a minimalist.

I didn't actually choose this practice myself either, but was referred there by another dentist: I had an emergency appointment, my first dental visit in years and - similarly to you - this dentist then referred me to the dentist who treated her. I had only ever been to one other practice prior to that, had never heard of dental spas, and was quite ignorant/sceptical about the concept myself. (And particularly sceptical of the fluffy new treatment I was beeing sent there for - NuCalm. Thankfully I got IV sedation instead!)

I also understand why women are attracted to things like this, because we are expected by society to somehow be beautiful and flawless no matter what age we are, what medical and financial situations we are in. Looks can affect career, relationship possibilities, so many things. All we should have to worry about is our health and that everything in our mouths is healthy, painfree, and functions. It shouldn't matter if our fillings were made of some bright purple substance, but of course, it would. Unfortunately, there is an impossible standard set by the media that people internalize. So the idea of going to a spa is probably cocoon symbolism. Do you feel ugly these days? Come out a butterfly! Of course they can't promise that outright in their advertising. This I really feel is the unspoken promise, and I worry it plays on the deepest fears of women (maybe men also because men are expected to look "fit").

I think, sadly, a lot of this is probably true. I remember adverts from the practice I was at for a special deal for brides wanting a 'smile makeover' for their wedding day! On the one hand, there's nothing wrong with people wanting to improve the look of their smile - it's a very visible part of your appearance, and there are many people on this forum who have avoided going out/seeing people etc out of embarassment, so to turn that around and give them confidence again is a great thing. But, generally, they don't want a 'celebrity smile', just a one they're not afraid to show; plus, you're right, no-one should ever feel they have to hide away in the first place. And if a dentist is telling everyone they need cosmetic treatment, that's another matter. I've just remembered, the first dentist who saw me at the spa practice actually said to me that I have a very nice 'visible smile'...which was a (pleasant!) shock to me since I hate my mouth (although, I hate mouths generally, but that's another story!). I do know it most definitely was/is not perfect, post-smile-makeover standard. He said what he wanted was to give me a healthy mouth on the "inside" (ie deal with the cavities and decay etc) to match my smile on the outside.

As for dental "holidays" or "cruises", I think you're right to be cynical. I wouldn't go near either.

And brit

I wanted everyone else to answer before me because as you would expect I have a view lol.

lol!

 

[brit]

But, generally, they don't want a 'celebrity smile', just a one they're not afraid to show; plus, you're right, no-one should ever feel they have to hide away in the first place. And if a dentist is telling everyone they need cosmetic treatment, that's another matter.

There's a world of difference between a functional smile you are not afraid to show and a cosmetic Hollywood perfection one. I am even cynical about bleaching and wouldn't do it myself.

It is unethical to talk people into cosmetic dentistry since doing even veneers has long-term implications for bite, sensitivity, re-do costs and you do hear the occasional horror story about permanent sensitivity/bite issues etc etc even for people who have been on those 'TV Extreme Makeover' type shows.

Just because a practice advertises cosmetic dentistry, is not necessarily a reason to avoid it (in UK at least) so long as they also do General and Restorative stuff. In fact many ethical dentists as Letsconnect has said before will try to talk you out of it, if you do start to fall for the ads, and advise you they would just leave well alone if it were their teeth.

Phobics needing treatment after many years of neglect do need to be aware of the dangers of overkill and oversell. One of the reasons 7 hour sedation dentistry appointments seem rather inappropriate to me.

 

[Pianimo]

Agreed.

Just because a practice advertises cosmetic dentistry, is not necessarily a reason to avoid it (in UK at least) so long as they also do General and Restorative stuff. In fact many ethical dentists as Letsconnect has said before will try to talk you out of it, if you do start to fall for the ads, and advise you they would just leave well alone if it were their teeth.

I've not come across a private practice that doesn't offer some sort of cosmetic treatment. Especially since things such as crowns, implants and orthodontics are listed as cosmetic in a lot of places, whereas I would see those as completely different from say veneers or bleaching etc.

My impression from the practice I've just left is that everything is patient-centred. So, if someone comes in wanting a smile makeover, the dentists get stuck in and give them the whole nine yards, and seem to love doing it and be proud of the results. On the other hand, if people (like me) just want their teeth keeping healthy/restored to health, then the dentists are happy to stick to that. Eitherway, the emphasis was on helping the patient meet their goal.

One of the reasons 7 hour sedation dentistry appointments seem rather inappropriate to me.

7 hours?!?! Seriously? I can't see anyone coping well with that, let alone a phobic! What treatment takes that long?

 

[comfortdentist]

7 hours of sedation is dangerous and I sedate patients!

 

[RP]

Even I haven't done that!

 

[TimidLady]

It's common in my country for dentists to have 3-4 patients in rooms at the same time, and they run around between them at different stages, for example when impressions are being done. It's also fairly common for dentists who have patients that need a whole lot of work to do 1/4 of the mouth at a time. So when you factor all that in with impressions, x-rays, etc. it can take hours.

I think the longest I have had was about 5 hours when I was 12, but before you assume that was torture and inappropriate, hear the rest. My first experience with dentistry had been awful. I had the misfortune of being the victim of a pediatric dentist who was sued for, among many other things, intentionally damaging emerging adult teeth in children to cultivate expensive work for himself later. By doing this he could show xrays as proof the care was needed, I believe. He did nearly all the things that the dental chain dentists have been accused of doing, and more. I'm pretty sure he did some things none of those chains have even thought of, in order to make more money. Thank goodness he didn't do baby teeth root canals. He just pulled them without numbing when they weren't even loose. My mother eventually became suspicious of him, and stopped taking us to the dentist after I complained to her that it hurt a lot and when I cried he told me to shut up and pinched my nose shut with water in it. After questioning me carefully she managed to piece together that she was also being charged for novocaine I wasn't even getting, so we quit going. She knew then he was cruel, but it didn't occur to my parents that he was either intentionally or incompetently harming my mouth as well.

The pediatric dentist was eventually punished. This isn't really the right thread to tell that story, but when I feel calm enough to tell it, I will post the story of a truly heroic dentist, who managed to save every single one of my teeth despite extensive damage caused intentionally or incompetently by the pediatric dentist. I have tried to find the trial online for closure, but it was so many years ago that I don't think those records are available online. I had so much damage I needed a root canal shortly after he was caught, and the good dentist had to really race to save me from more of them. He didn't normally take children in his practice, but my mother begged him and he agreed to assess me. When he saw little me with pigtails, and got xrays, he wiped his eyes, and I got confused. He told me he had allergies.

The long appointments were appropriate for me. I was a terrified kid but accustomed to endocrinology appointments that back then required we wait 3 hours for lab results, so breaks made sense if I showed any silent stress signals (breathing hard, tensing up). I am very grateful to the dentist who took as much time as was needed to help a severely phobic little diabetic with extensive dental damage. They even stocked up on special dietetic snacks, children's magazines, and made a toy reward basket like family dentists sometimes have just for me. Remember, I was his only child patient so that was all done for one little girl. One of the assistants was assigned to hold my hand when my mother needed to do an errand. I don't think it's likely a dental spa for celebrities could ever top that. I never once had to be sedated.

I was awake for those long appointments and don't remember them with any special distress. I remember some short and brutal appointments at the first dentist with great distress, though. It concerns me that some people may be being sedated more and longer than is necessary because they may think it would hurt a lot without it. Some posters here literally can't get in a dental chair without being sedated, and I get that, I really do. But 7 hours of sedation is difficult for me to grasp.

 

[brit]

Even I haven't done that!

LOL you are all so pedantic - please substitute 'multiple hours of sedated treatment' - we did have a poster who was offered 7 hours and I think we successfully talked her out of it.
The longer you are sedated the higher the risk too as Comfortdentist said.

 

[brit]

It's common in my country for dentists to have 3-4 patients in rooms at the same time, and they run around between them at different stages, for example when impressions are being done. It's also fairly common for dentists who have patients that need a whole lot of work to do 1/4 of the mouth at a time. So when you factor all that in with impressions, x-rays, etc. it can take hours.

I think the longest I have had was about 5 hours when I was 12, but before you assume that was torture and inappropriate, hear the rest. My first experience with dentistry had been awful. I had the misfortune of being the victim of a pediatric dentist who was sued for, among many other things, intentionally damaging emerging adult teeth in children to cultivate expensive work for himself later. By doing this he could show xrays as proof the care was needed, I believe. He did nearly all the things that the dental chain dentists have been accused of doing, and more. I'm pretty sure he did some things none of those chains have even thought of, in order to make more money. Thank goodness he didn't do baby teeth root canals. He just pulled them without numbing when they weren't even loose. My mother eventually became suspicious of him, and stopped taking us to the dentist after I complained to her that it hurt a lot and when I cried he told me to shut up and pinched my nose shut with water in it. After questioning me carefully she managed to piece together that she was also being charged for novocaine I wasn't even getting, so we quit going. She knew then he was cruel, but it didn't occur to my parents that he was either intentionally or incompetently harming my mouth as well.

The pediatric dentist was eventually punished. This isn't really the right thread to tell that story, but when I feel calm enough to tell it, I will post the story of a truly heroic dentist, who managed to save every single one of my teeth despite extensive damage caused intentionally or incompetently by the pediatric dentist. I have tried to find the trial online for closure, but it was so many years ago that I don't think those records are available online. I had so much damage I needed a root canal shortly after he was caught, and the good dentist had to really race to save me from more of them. He didn't normally take children in his practice, but my mother begged him and he agreed to assess me. When he saw little me with pigtails, and got xrays, he wiped his eyes, and I got confused. He told me he had allergies.

The long appointments were appropriate for me. I was a terrified kid but accustomed to endocrinology appointments that back then required we wait 3 hours for lab results, so breaks made sense if I showed any silent stress signals (breathing hard, tensing up). I am very grateful to the dentist who took as much time as was needed to help a severely phobic little diabetic with extensive dental damage. They even stocked up on special dietetic snacks, children's magazines, and made a toy reward basket like family dentists sometimes have just for me. Remember, I was his only child patient so that was all done for one little girl. One of the assistants was assigned to hold my hand when my mother needed to do an errand. I don't think it's likely a dental spa for celebrities could ever top that. I never once had to be sedated.

I was awake for those long appointments and don't remember them with any special distress. I remember some short and brutal appointments at the first dentist with great distress, though. It concerns me that some people may be being sedated more and longer than is necessary because they may think it would hurt a lot without it. Some posters here literally can't get in a dental chair without being sedated, and I get that, I really do. But 7 hours of sedation is difficult for me to grasp.

Thanks for sharing that traumatic history...that does indeed sound like you are up there in the Top 30 maybe(competition is fierce ) of some of the worst dental experiences ever recorded on this site. I am afraid I cannot get my head round how the 'www.dentistthemenace' stuff can be going on in USA in 21st Century and this means that there will be many more people reaching adulthood with extremely severe dental fear from torture and abuse. The corporations are also getting away scot free - they agree to pay back 24m US$ but are otherwise free to carry on regardless.
Any dentist carrying out unnecessary treatment for profit, let alone restraining a screaming child in a papoose board (which is not allowed) would be at great risk of losing their registration to practice in UK.

I am really pleased you were able to get the care you needed with just TLC from a General Dentist. Something similar happened to me in that the dentist I saw immediately after the one who did 8 fillings with no LA, was completely different, reassuring and did not hurt me even in 1975 - he used bonjela before injecting and cheekwaggling. I kind of knew what had happened was wrong and never even told my parents but I failed to defend myself as I had always trusted adults. I had also had some freaky gas GA experiences in 1960s but there was no malice on the part of the dentist and my parents were present so that didn't upset me as much.

Do start your own thread with your history etc when you feel ready. ETHICS are the most important thing in a dental practitioner and it sometimes it seems the hardest thing to find.

 

[comfortdentist]

It seems that in USA there are several models of practice. There are the HMO type practices where the fees are very low and so the dentists have very little time to do anything. There are the PPO where dentists have agreed to lower fees on varies insurance plans and each plan pays a different amount. There are fee for service plans where the dentist charges basically the same fee to everyone he sees with an occasional up or down charge.
As you might expect the best dentists are fee for service and you can expect to be treated the best but at a higher price than if you go to the ppo dentist. There you will see a dentist who is basically seeing one patient at a time and not running around at all.
Seeing patients for a second opionion I often see a patient who has brought in a treatment plan from the HMO dentist with a lot of uncovered items and upcharges for upgrades.
Of interest is that I know a number of good dentists in town and I almost never see a patient who has left their practice or wants a second opinion.

 

[brit]

Well even privately in the UK there are different tiers as well.
Since a lot of former NHS dentists with large patient lists simply opted out of NHS into the private sector overnight, many took on Denplan a capitation plan where you pay a monthly premium based on your dental health at the time of joining and you have to be 'dentally fit' at the time of joining.
This fee would include your check-ups and maybe cleaning and you'd pay 50% of fee on any other treatment.
Sometimes these practices will run an NHS list too and so they will never be short of patients and therefore always busy assuming they are not totally useless.

All the private dentists I have seen have been 'fee for service' and I much prefer this, I pay quite a high fee for check-ups and cleaning and if I have an issue I want checked out betweentimes a high consult fee BUT this means there is very little incentive to do unnecessary work on me, since having me on the books already builds in x amount of profit every year. The dentist is also unstressed and unrushed and treats me like a friend. A trusting relationship has been built up and he never tries to upsell anything.

Back in the day NHS dental checkups were totally free for everyone and this meant the dentist was basically trawling for work in order to then get the 'piece rate' per item of treatment. This must have led to some overtreatment but maybe not too much since there were too many patients to fit in anyway. They also didn't rush too much, I remember 60 mins for 4 fillings as a child and I have to say these fillings are still there 40 years later with the exception of one or two.
NB NHS dental in England and Wales is no longer 'piece rate' and bizarrely now incentivises undertreatment such as extraction instead of root canal.
New schemes are being piloted as it has been recognised that some NHS dentists were gaming the system, not for profit but in staging work and doing as little as possible per treatment cycle and in opting for what was quickest for them(extraction) rather than what was best for the patient (root canal).

 

[TimidLady]

I've never had any dental coverage from my health insurance or work and I've never found a private dental insurance plan that looked like a very good deal in cost vs/coverage. I would love to find one. Some people belong to extended payment plan programs, which work like credit as far as I can tell. I just pay out of what I save for emergencies and have done with it. Over-use of credit cards gets a lot of people in terrible trouble eventually.

I've only had one dentist that didn't run around between at least two patients, and he wasn't the really good one I mentioned in this thread. Most of my doctors do it too. My general physician doesn't, which is the first time in many years I have had one that didn't. My doctor only has one treatment room, which is incredibly rare and is also not sharing a practice with two or three others, which is quite uncommon now. I think maybe demand here outstrips the availability of middle to high end practices since the emergence of discount care. Since HMOs and chains have come in, a lot of the old-fashioned practices could not compete with their low prices and had to get creative or close. The trend now is for small medical and dental practices to maintain two locations if you practice in an area outside the city. One is in the city, which probably pays for your mortgage on your house, and one is in an outlying or under-served area, which is often where the dentist or doctor lives or grew up. Specialists may only be in the outlying area one or two days a week, and I live in an outlying area. To be more clear, the second office is not open on days the owner is not there, so it's not like a mini-chain.

When you find someone good, you hang onto them for dear life. Some of the best remaining ones have closed practices these days and cannot accept new patients unless a patient moves or something and there is an opening. If you go on a Monday it's not unusual for the doctor or dentist to be running an hour late because they had to take extra time with patients that day for whatever reason. I try to see only people who will tell me all the treatment options and the benefits vs. risks and who are willing to refer me if I would benefit from treatment they can't offer. So does everyone else. There is a chain dentist here I could walk in any time without an appointment but I don't trust those chains, because the dentists that work there have a corporate entity to answer to which can often create conflicts of interest. I was always leery of them for that reason, and while I am sure that there are some terrific people that work in them, news stories about the chains have more than validated my concerns.

Maybe I have been lucky, but consultations and rechecks have always been free at my private dentists. My general dentist does any necessary bite corrections on crowns that were done there for free also. I pay fee for service. I am not sure whether they accept any dental plans. I know that a couple of my medical specialists no longer accept insurance of any kind, and they have told me this is because the insurance companies put too much pressure on them to provide the cheapest care, rather than the best care for the individual patient. One of them told me that what they cover and don't cover puts a lot of unfortunate pressure on the patient as well. I am guessing the same must be true in dentistry.

 

[Clem]

"dental spa" is an oxymoron. Sort of like government intelligence.

BTW, I'm going to Germany for the month of January (business, sort of). Because the Germans I know say to stay far away from German dentists, I'm going to fork over the bucks for a 3rd checkup this year (my insurance covers 2) before I go, just to make sure everything is OK. No dentists while on vacation for me--they just don't have anything to do with each other.