Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next mov

[Inagony]

Hello one and all.

Let me just preface this with, I have found another dentist...he is FANTASTIC, and is really working with me to help me and my phobia. However I have an issue with my old one, as follows, and am unsure what to do.

The full story, as it unfolded is in the support section, so I'll keep it down to the minimum.

This involves both mine, and my father's treatment, by the same dentist.

I orginially went to see Dr RG after a visit to the emergency dentist at my local hospital, who said I needed an RCT. I eventually saw her, ( a month later) and she told me the tooth would need crowning, and as I wanted porcelain, she recommends bleaching first (I have severe flouridosis.)

I paid £300 for the trays and bleach. Told I need to book a crown prep appt.

Called up just before the appt to query cost etc. Told my Practice Manager that I could have a silver crown on NHS or private porclian (Sorry about spelling guys, it's late ). She told me the NHS don't offer glod crowns (which I wanted for cash flow reasons). I called again later to query the lack of RCT, ill fitting bleaching trays and no Au crown, and was met with hostility and resentment.

Recieved a treatment plan, after requesting it, and was shocked. There was NO mention of a RCT, they got (I thought) the wrong tooth, and the trays still did not fit. Went for my crown prep appt, and ended up coming out with a filling, and very upset, as there was still no mention of an RCT. And yet, they wanted me to book another prep appt. I kept asking about it, and the misnumbered tooth, and was poo pooed.

I decided to get a second opinion, and met my new best friend (well almost), after a consultation, and looking at the treatment plan he has confirmed the following:

I need a root canal,
She DID number the tooth wrong ( I did keep telling them it was a 6 not a 7! - I did use to be a dental nurse, I'm not as green as I am cabbage looking)
Au (33.3% au crowns) are availiable on the NHS.
The bleaching trays don't fit!

So thats my half.

My Dad has been in terrible pain, and was informed by the same dentist that he would need his wisdom tooth pulled, and that she would refer him to the hospital. It would take 6 months.

6 months later he goes, and asks about it, firstly to be met with complete blank faces, then oh yes we did refer you, to the manager coming in and telling him and the dentist that that VERY day, they had recieved a letter from the hospital saying that they no longer do that procedure. Dr RG tells Dad, that she can do it for him in the practise with local. I smell something fishy....

Called the hospital today and spoke to the dentistry unit, and maxillo-facial, and they DO PULL WISDOM TEETH. The nice lady goes and checks, and suprise suprise, no referal letter.

(Incidently this is the same dentist who has told my best mate that ALL her amalgam fillings need replacing. Every last one. For composite, private of course!)

She's the only NHS dentist in the area, and has only been open 18 months.

Now I don't know what to do, complain? Who to? On what grounds?

Is there someone out there who can advise me, or let me know if these are causes for complaint, if so how serious.

Im sorry it doesn't make much sense, I get so upset even thinking bout it all.

Thanks guys....

Lx

 

[brit]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

Hi Inagony
So glad you went elsewhere. If you look in the resources section on this website- there is a link to the General Dental Council website. They actually publish reports on complaints which make interesting reading.
https://www.gdc-uk.org/.

The complaints procedure is outlined but I would suggest you pick up the phone to them first, to find out if it's best for you to put everything in a complaint letter to the dentist first.

It could be that just threatening (in writing) to bring the matter to the GDC's attention would get you a refund on your bleach trays.

All the best - so glad you are now sorted.
Brit

 

[Inagony]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

Well, a little update, they recieved the letter this morning.

I've had a phone call, and they originally wanted me to go in on Monday, but now I need to go in tomorrow to talk to both of them about the points raised on my letter.

I'm now , I don't like dentists, and I seem to be subjecting myself to it a lot recently. They want to have a look at the bleaching trays, and do a couple of X-rays...all I can say is they better not try charging me!

I've got to stick to my guns though, and not let them poke and prod me too much and submit to treatment lol.

I'll keep you updated...

Lx

 

[brit]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

Inagony
Please, I don't think you should go along. You don't have to submit to anything. You have left that practice because you have lost confidence in them. Just ask for your money back in writing.

If you do want to go along, so you can make a more effective complaint to the GDC (not just get your money back) - take someone with you as a witness and do not get in the chair. Suggest your new dentist can take the x-rays on her behalf. By the way the GDC cannot award damages, so getting your money back off her upfront would be a good strategy.

Sounds like she's getting worried you might formally complain though - you're definitely entitled to money back on the bleaching, just under normal 'not fit for purpose' consumer laws. You said it was a small village, word will soon get around.

 

[Inagony]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

Hi Brit,

I understand your concerns, however I am prepared to let them try to explain their actons...and also their reations tomorrow will tell me all I need to know.

She can take an X-ray, however that's as much as she's doing, no matter what I will not be going back for treatment.

Funnily enough, they are finally accepting that I do have some knowledge...and even admitted about the gold crowns, but I am more interested in how they are going to explain away the lack of RCT and the wrong tooth!

I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow....

Lx

 

[brit]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

Hi Inagony
You're braver than me... assertiveness goes out of the window with me and dentists, although I'm reasonably assertive in other situations; and with medical doctors I can much more easily assert my rights.

On those infrequent occasions that I'm not happy with how I am treated, I have to 'vote with my feet' and be very careful who I choose in the first place.

I really think you should get the bleaching money back -I still can't believe she wanted you to bleach them when you actually had toothache. And your poor Dad suffering for 6 months and she doesn't even seem to have referred him.

Is your new dentist private by the way?
All the best - somehow I don't think she's going to get much past you! I reckon she'll be a lot nicer to you than the first time you met her!
Brit

 

[Inagony]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

Thanks for your kind words Brit.

To be honest, I thought it was all in my head to begin with, and it wasn't until I got fed up and moved to te (yes lol private) practice down the road, that I realised that I was actually right; and did have a justifiable complaint...with my dad's treatment too, my social concience went into overdrive. I live in quite a large villiage which is popular with, lets say, the more mature. Without wanting to sound too patronising; what else has she been upto, and who else is she ripping off.

I have the feeling that I'm the first to complain, so let see how high I can make her jump.

Like I said before, mostly I'm going so that I can take it further as such...let her put her point across, and she how she tries to make everything right.

Working on my battle stratgy now lol.

Lx

 

[Inagony]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

Hi all,

Well I went to see her, I was seriously before walking in, and nearly turned around and ran away!

They were bending over backwards, so I should think, although it's sad that I have to throw my teddy in the corner before they do...

So we discussed the points I raised, and in no particular order:

1) Yes she did mis-chart and she is sorry.
2) Kim the hygenist will be spoken to, as she shouldn't be diagnosing anything...and I also told her about the 'it doesn't hurt' fiasco.
3) When I registered I was told the tooth would need filling, and I missed the appointment (but lets face it, how many of us have done that, just bottled it!). She was using the pan-oral X-ray from that to diagnose treatment for me now! She then asked who told me I needed an RCT, so I told her both the emergency dentist and the dentist I went to for a second opinion. She asked if I'd been given antibiotics, and I said yes. Apparently I didn't tell her that I'd been to the emergency dentist or that I'd been told that I needed a RCT (er, I think it was the first sentance I uttered, between sobs....and kept uttering while trying to query my treatment ). I'm sitting there thinking well who the hell filled my tooth then!!!! She did an X-ray and confirmed that I needed an RCT. (SHOCKER!)
4) Gold crowns ARE availiable on the NHS...really??? Apparently because I said a gold crown, they thought I meant a precious metal crown. Ok, I can kinda see the confusion, but do they expect all patients to know the difference between a gold crown, and a non precious metal gold crown. I thought gold crown on the NHS please would have given them a clue.
5) The bleaching trays don't fit. (OK, getting a little bored now, I knew all this). The model was too shallow...told you so. So they will remake them for me once treatment is over (whether she does it or not).

She then tells me that the cosmetic treatment can wait. And that they will be offering a 'spread the cost' option.

But then she goes and spoils it. Told me that I needed the RCT tooth crowned because the tooth would be brittle (as confirmed by my tooth breaking in the first place!). That's ok, but her exact words were: 'because of your flouridosis, the tooth is brittle in the first place, so you'll definately need the crown as it will be even more brittle'. Now I have appriximately a ratio of 4:1 that tell me the opposite - that they are hard as hell.

Now, I'm still stuck. She's been honest and apologised for most of it.

Do I:

Pay £210 for an RCT and £450 for a crown with the lovely Mr Phillips?
Pay £189 for an RCT and crown (albeit a gold coloured one) with her. It's a big difference.

hmmmmmm

Lx

 

[Nat]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

Hiya, I had pretty much the same problem with the previos dentist I saw before meetimg my good guy, I was treated badly had things done that wasnt explained to me and basically treated like a child and that I should be ashamed of mysefl for acting the way I did while I was there, I had a choice, I could go back to this man and let him treat me for about £160 or I could go to this new one and have the same treatment for the same price but have a little help from IV sedation which costs me £180 a time all in all the whole cost for the treatment from my good guy is £729 as the IV has to be done privately in his surgery it is a big difference in mney and I cant really afford it but the care he gives me is out of this world, I think its a small price to pay for my own peace of mind and happiness. I certainly couldnt have gone back to him to get treated so I opted for the more expensive one. It is a big difference but if it makes you feel better going with your good guy then I would opt for that one!

 

[harper]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

hi Inagony
i agree with nat on this if you can afford to go with the one who treats you with respect. half way through my treatment i said to my hubby what am i going to do with c leaves, he kept saying to me why would he? the very next time i went i was sitting waiting and the receptionist said to someone c wont be here in april and then i saw the notice saying he was leaving i can honestly say i just wanted to run outside and cry. when i went in he said whats up and i just burst into tears and said what am i going to now i cant see anyone else i dont want you to go. he said ill still see you. my hubby promised me he wouldnt let him go without finding out where and at my last app at that practice thats exactly what he did. i cant really afford to go as its now private but as hubby said to c she trusts you now and i dont want to ruin that relationship. thanks hubby i love you x

 

[brit]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

Hi Inagony
It's easy for me to say as finance is not such an issue, but for me it would be 'no contest'. I wouldn't go back there if she paid me!
As we expected, she had changed her tune somewhat but the only recognition I'd give to that, is to desist from telling everyone about my experience.  

Would you want to see the hygienist there again, ever? I would not! She hurt you before you complained about her....!

Would you feel comfortable with her doing the work? I don't think I would. I'd want someone competent doing my root canal - you could lose your tooth otherwise when it fails.

You're being offered free bleaching once work done even if you go elsewhere - I would still say you should get a refund instead. You should pay for the broken appt but presumably you have?  Exactly how much damage could that bleach stuff have done to your gums - you were meant to follow through for 3 weeks weren't you? I'm concerned that other people wouldn't have had your knowledge and it could have had serious consequences.

Your father's issue obviously not discussed for confidentiality reasons (but still outstanding?).

To me she just sounds a bit incompetent, inexperienced at managing her staff and not a good listener (she didn't know you'd been to the emergency dentist? - she was more interested in telling you off for not going earlier I recall).  

I agree with Nat : The lovely Mr Philips definitely  .

You were so brave to go though !

 

[Inagony]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

Thanks for your feedback guys

I think you've swung me, to be honest the only thing that was making me concider going back was the cost, but as you said brit, if the root canal fails then thats £189 down the drain anyway.

I didn't discuss my dad, as I feel it's his battle, but myself and my family are pressing him to at least query it with the practice.

I won't be taking the complaint any futher (as really don't have the time to be honest), but I will not be recommending her to anyone either.

Thanks again guys

Lx

 

[Inagony]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

Well I's done it

I got my root canal done....MR Phillips did it, and in one sitting (ok it was 1hr 30 mins) but none the less it's complete...going back in August (the day after my holiday) for my crown prep.

Now....ooooh the plot thickens

My dad's abcess has returned, and I finally got him to go down to see my new best friend, as this has been going on for over 18 months now.

Suprise suprise, it's an abcess (the other dentist had never diagonsed it ) and he has a 8mm pocket around the tooth! Turns out, she's never done the tappy tooth thing, or taken an x ray, or given antibotics...or referred him .

It needs to be pulled, and the wisdom tooth too. Mr P has referred dad to the hospital to pull the wisdom tooth.

Took an x-ray to see if he could save the other one, but the bone has decayed too much, and he can't save it. So my dad's sitting gearing himself up for another tooth to be yanked...Mr P says, no, I aint doing it now, I can't because it wouldn't numb properly. We don't pull abcessed teeth. So my dad turns round and says...oh that'd be why it hurt last time!

Mr P is going to xray the other side too, and check theres nothing stirring there...and do dad another lower denture. He admired dad's denture (called it the rolls royce of dentures so he should...I helped make that!). He'll do it for £400 too...he's giving my family discounts left right and centre ATM, he's knocking £50 off my crown, as I'm going to have all 8 front smile teeth crowned for cosmetic reasons, but thats a way in the furture.

He's been given anti botics (and enough to take on holiday incase it pops back up) and will go back when we get back.

My question is (lol, I knew I'd get there eventually) is what to do?

Surely this isn't right, concidering the lack of treatment he got from GR (plus mine too). Should we complain, and to who, on what basis?

~If anyone's got any advice, it' be greatfully recieved

 

[brit]

Re: Right, Now I'm upset...and not sure of my next

She's sounding worse (more inexperienced) by the minute. I'd say what have you got to lose except the time it takes to write a letter. Just put it in writing to the GDC. It's not going to end her career (read the cases on line - you'll soon see that - they often involve multiple patients) but it may make her take more care in future - even if all they do is ask questions and then go away again. Nobody likes being professionally checked up upon.

My Mum left an NHS practice after years and years because a new Associate cocked sth up. Her then new dentist (12 years ago) offered to help her construct the complaint case but my Mum's so soft she turned him down and completely left her to carry on doing the same thing to other people....you can bet I wouldn't have done that. Maybe Mr P. can oblige but it would be harder for him if he's in the same village.