What is this? (extreme ptsd and I'm avoiding going to the dentist again)

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dentistafraid

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Hello, this is my first time posting here.
Let me paint you a picture here: Since December last year I've been going on through several procedures stemmed from a bad crown placement. My dentist (whom saw me for over 10 years, placed a crown forcefully and destroyed the last molar on my right side).
5 weeks ago (imagine that, almost 9 months after the first procedure), the "crowned" tooth had to be pulled out because the bad crown had functioned as a hammer breaking the tooth apart. Of course the tooth was infected and had an abscess. They put me on antibiotics (A very very strong dose which I told the doctor was very dangerous for me as I've had Candidiasis on my gut on 2014. It's not as if I am antibiotic resistant. I'm just super sensitive to strong doses). But the doctor gave me the prescription anyway because the tooth had been impacted and broken, it would seem, for quite a while -since I've been complaining and none of the other dentists cared much for my soreness or pain. I trusted her and the infection was killed successfully.

Anyway, On my right side, I don't have two teeth (there is pictures below). One, I lost years ago and I was planning to get an implant when all of this happened. Then, there is the molar I lost because of the bad crown and then following up there is the destroyed molar that was rescued by a root canal.

Now, after the antibiotic course, my mouth started to burn so badly and I started to develop ulcers and red patches on my lower inner lip. The dentist who pulled out my tooth said it was herpes simplex. They put me on antivirals for 2 weeks. It didn't work. So I went to my general doctor and he said that I had a fungus infection. He didn't want to prescribe anything because I did not have cotton like mouth (but *I* could see red blotches and a white film on my mouth). My mouth burned and was HURTING so badly I begged him for something. He prescribed some nystatin and fluconazole (I think I'm misspelling the names in English) and I have to say my symptoms went away almost immediately. I added a mouthwash done with baking soda which made me be more comfortable (4 times a day, I do gargles with baking soda). I felt so good. I thought the nightmare was over. I was almost back to my old self.

I cannot emphasize how a TORMENT all this experience has been. I don't want anybody to touch me, even less a dentist. I'm usually crying or trembling, shaking life a leaf, when the dentist is working on my mouth because I'm so deadly afraid he or she would mess it up again. This is why I'm posting on this forum. I'm SCARED AND TERRIFIED.

HOWEVER, I keep getting this rash on my inner lower lip (before the burning on my mouth was generalized. everything hurt, now it is more focalized). When they told me I had fungus, the improvement on my mouth was amazing. I could sleep again and eat. I was told I would have sensitivity to very hot or spicy foods and that I should avoid it until everything was cleared up. I'm on my 6th day of treatment and the doctor said I should go up to 14 days. I've been very diligent on the treatment as I still have to go for partials. It's a bit hard to eat nonetheless because of all of this mess (created by the dentist) my bit is of course, uneven.

But the rash worries me so much. The doctors see me and they say "you are fine. this will be over soon" (please if you are a doctor, try to have a little bit of sympathy to your patience. We are dealing with the pain and consequences, not you!). But I come back home and the anxiety mounts up.

I don't know if Oral thrust due to a course of antibiotics causes this flare ups. Like I said I'm waaay better but there's still soreness, itchiness and a slight burning -now and then-. and then there's THIS.

a3251aa3-1bd0-4c0b-b1a2-f941e02cb8d0.JPG

comes on and off. I've never ever had this on my lower lip. not Canker sores or anything (I had canker sores on my inner lip at the beginning of the fungal infection and it was extremely red. Now it looks normal). I also have small white bumps on my lips. They are not open sores, and they do not hurt. but I never had them before the antibiotics. (I circled them with a light orange mark. Sorry if it is too faded). I have to stretch my lips so that even I can see them. But there were not there before.)

IMG_6842.jpg

I know I will have to go AGAIN to the dentist for partials but the last time I went for an appointment (both the physician and the dentist alike), the red patches were not there :(
Is this the Candida die off effect?
Is the Oral thrust causing this? -this came up when the burning/itchiness started-

I had excellent oral health until the bad crown. I brush every day and I'm very mindful of my mouth in general. But this past months have been excruciating and filled with dentists that have varied in degrees of professionalism and now I am suffering with a fungus infection and *this* and I'm sick of it and my anxiety is OFF THE ROOF.
Seriously, I think I'm gong to die because out of this (I'm not joking).

Is this normal? is this expected from my fungal infection (most of the symptoms: burning mouth, itchiness, white film, the red patches, the little white bumps on lips, everything appeared after the antibiotics).

When I had Candida die off it was awful, I felt very very bad before I felt very good. Must add and emphasize that after the baking soda gargles you should now I felt almost back to normal. With the Antifungal drugs I felt very good after two days, but with the BKS gargles, GONE. a-ma-zing.
But, of course afterwards I got a sore throath and flue like symptoms, the redness back again. This could be Candida die off. I read around Reddit this is possible.
But the dentists have not comforted me or helped me out. When I asked they are like "you are almost out", "you are very anxious. don't fret. Calm down". That's all they say. As if it is my fault that I had this. I wasn't the one that messed up my teeth in the first place. I am very responsible and went to the professional every time I felt bad. They are not living with my pain or this "fungus" that calms down and flares up a bit and they can't tell me if this normal or not.
Believe me, if I'm posting this is because I had no choice and I feel cornered.
I think they do not care, which is kind of sad because I'm, after all, paying them. It's so dad.

I hope you can soothe my anxiety and help me out a little bit to understand what is going on because never in my life has this happened to me. Not the Oral thrust, or the red patches or going to the dentist to return back home to feel worse and worse.
And I just want this nightmare to be over. I am here thinking that this may be a symptom of something worse (anxiety) and I just can't take it anymore and knowing that I have to go to the dentist terrifies me. It's just torture. Pure torture.
I wish I didn't have to go to a dentist ever again.
thanks in advance.
 
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MountainMama

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Not a dentist, but I had almost the exact same thing happen after a course of clindamycin. My dentist and oral surgeon (I had a tooth abscess as well at the time) said that it was probably unrelated. I went to my primary doctor and she said it was a reaction to the clindamycin. I was given this dental paste to use on my lip. It was expensive but worked really well. My entire lips were covered in blisters and they burned so much! I also had white/red lesions on the roof of my mouth and inner cheeks. I couldn’t eat for two days…only drink cool liquids. It lasted off and on for almost three months! It was more mild each time it came back then it was gone. I will never take clindamycin again!
 
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dentistafraid

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yeah! I was given the same antibiotic and a very high dose at that. I've been going to the dentist but they have not recommended anything for the lip and I was so scared that this was something else! This lesions come and go and usually hurt before appearing (did that happen to you?) and it's sore when they are present. Usually they fade away and then... days later they come back.
Today, I was thinking that it was my toothpaste. An allergy of something.
I never took Clindamicyn, ever. The antibiotic was so very strong, I swear my mouth tasted so bad and my ears seemed to unclog when I took the first pill. It was HORRIBLE.

Which cream were you recommended?

Thank you so much for replying T_T
 
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MountainMama

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That was exactly what happened with me. My mouth would feel sore and I could feel it before the lesions appeared. I had been on amoxicillin previously and had never taken clindamycin before either.

I can’t remember the exact name of the stuff. It was called a dental paste and it was kind of gritty but I would put it on twice a day and it helped a lot. It looked awful but would make it feel better. It does go away eventually, thankfully, but it took 3 months before mine was completely gone. It was horrible. My doctor said it was a really rare side effect and that was the first she had seen it. She put in my medical file to avoid clindamycin in the future.
 
Gordon

Gordon

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That mark on your lip on the upper photo looks like trauma to me, the lower right incisor is slightly out of alignment, it may well have a slightly sharp edge on the corner which is nicely placed to rub on your lip, exactly where the mark is.
You could carefully smooth off that corner (on the right side at the top of the tooth) with a clean emery board.
 
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dentistafraid

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Hello, Gordon! Thank you for replying. Yes, my jaw is deviated from it's center and I also have tinnitus (the misalignment began precisely because of the bad crown). The dentist diagnosed me with heavy stress and this was, according to them, the cause of the deviation (clenching teeth. I do not do this. it was the bad tall crown that pushed my jaw sideways, I'm afraid. They began to correct this issue on may and finished just about 5 weeks ago).

I think my mouth is suffering for hypersensitivity or an allergy. Like I said I have burning mouth (just a bit, since the antifungals the symptoms have diminished but still are a bit present). I stopped using mouthwash (I used the non alcohol version) and the symptoms diminished even more and I was left with a slight burning sensation on my inner lip and on the tip of my tongue. sometimes on the corners of my lips and my lips *were* extremely dry for some reason -especially the lower lip.

Yesterday, right after I brushed my teeth (I had the mark on the inner lip I posted, it was quite severe), I started noticing a bit of a burning sensation and itchiness.
When I went to the bathroom and looked in the mirror I had a rash around my mouth. The inner injury was almost gone (today is gone completely but the rash remains. It's around my mouth as you can see.
IMG_6844.jpg

I believe I must be allergic to toothpaste or dental hygiene products in general!

I sat down to look back on the very first time this rash (or whatever it is) on my inner lip appeared. Beyond the diagnosis of fungus and herpes, I started to have this discomfort when I took my partial and soaked it in a corega tab solution (doctor recommended I did this, prior I would only soak them in water with a little bit of soap and then scrub it with toothpaste). 15 minutes after I put my partial back on, I started with a swollen lip and rash inside. It really hurt and burned like hell.

I couldn't pin point the cause, because 2 days later I had a rampant infection and my molar had to be pulled out. Then there is the antibiotics course which I do not doubt caused me a severe allergic reaction that left my mouth open to infections and extra sensitive to any material available.

Back then, I thought it was the food I had eaten. I have some allergies to some foods, but I have eaten none of those pesky problematic foods just to be on the same side since then. Of course, I thought I had unblocked some new allergy I knew nothing about. BUTTTT Two days ago, when I was cleaning my teeth, I took my inner lip (all cleared of those markings and rash) and brushed it gently with my toothbrush.
After I did that, I started to feel burn again. I thought it was the fungus acting up. Like a Flare up. This is why I asked if flareups during fungus treatment on mouth were common?

the next day I had this markings (quite severe. the picture doesn't do it justice). Then, yesterday, after I brushed my teeth *again* I had a rash outside my mouth and the inner markings were faded. Today they are gone, but the rash is still there. I am suspecting the culprit of my sores, burning and general discomfort is my toothpaste. The mouthwash and the toothpaste have the same ingredients. I don't even use those ingredients on my head (shampoos).

The rash around the mouth is very telling since I'm not using any kind of cream, balm, lipstick etc, since the "herpes" or Fungus outbreak (a month). I had to throw away most of my makeup because of this two illnesses. So the toothpaste must be the culprit because it is the only thing that is constant throughout this hell.

So this is a theory, or course, but my flareups match and began after brushing my teeth. Now I have lovely rash around my mouth.

I've discontinued the use of the toothpaste for the time being (obviously I'm getting an alternative toothpaste). I do not know if this is something @MountainMama experienced during her allergy season with Clindamycin, but I have always ALWAYS being allergic to most creams and solutions. Makeup and such (albeit never to toothpaste!!). So this, to me, *can* be a plausible cause. I don't deny having fungus because the medicine did help a lot but I'm not a 100% clear and the toothpaste might be the culprit....

thank you guys for listening to me and for offering advice and comfort. I feel better just by reading your replies.
 
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MountainMama

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I have never had any allergies to products, makeup or hygiene. The clindamycin was the first time I ever had a reaction like that. I never noticed toothpaste or anything making it worse. It just burned when I did brush my teeth because the lesions were extremely painful.
 
Gordon

Gordon

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It could be the SLS in the toothpaste, some people are very sensitive to it.

It's the stuff that they put in to make it foam when you brush. If you have a look for non-SLS pastes, there are a fair few to choose from.

If a dentist prescribes Clindamycin in the UK NHS they'll be having a very unpleasant chat with the area Pharmacist :) There are very, very, very few occasions when it's needed for anything dental and the side effects are serious.
 
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dentistafraid

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Well, I stopped using the toothpaste and my symptoms went down overnight. The rash almost faded away. I applied some coconut oil in the morning and the rash came back a bit, but I was reading (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the SLS is produced from coconut oil, so I might be a little sensitive even to the basic ingredients, since I've been imposing those products on my mouth for over 3 months without knowing it. Actually my outer rash started to fade and as soon as I applied the coconut oil it went a bit red. Just a tad.

So far my mouth is not burning. I just feel a bit... sore inside the mouth because I've scrubbed my teeth with just water. I'm trying to let my mouth cool down because now, it is super sensitive because of all the dental treatments and mental trauma. I really miss the fresh feeling of toothpaste though.

when I brushed I didn't feel a thing. It was afterwards when everything went off the roof. The burning sensation on my cheeks, lips, tongue, was excruciating. Since I have a deviated jaw (not for long, I have gathered the courage to go to my TMJ doctor), I thought I had messed up a nerve or something. But it is just allergies.

It's still bad news, but allergies can be somewhat controlled.

After a week, I think I will start trying out another brands (I already ordered one. Let's hope this works).

I didn't know that Clindamycin was such a dangerous drug. I just accepted it because you are supposed to trust the doctor. My physician told me I was prescribed a very high dose and it shouldn't have been so :(
But never again. I'm not letting anyone prescribe me that drug ever!

I'm sure the antibiotic left my body super sensitive for almost anything else and this is why I'm having all of this reactions. I hope this fades away with time and proper care.

Thank you @Gordon and @MountainMama for taking the time to reply to my questions.
 
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MountainMama

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I didn’t know clindamycin was not usually used for dental use either. I knew it was powerful and I didn’t want to take it. At the time, I had an abscess that was not responding to multiple rounds of amoxicillin. My endodontist said clindamycin should knock it out. My doctor said I could take it but she monitored me closely for c.diff since I had already been on multiple rounds of antibiotics.
I know it took months for my body to get back to usual, not just the mouth lesions. I had trouble with my stomach, and intestines. No c.diff thank goodness.
 
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dentistafraid

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the sad part of my story is, they didn't even try to knock it out with regular antibiotics (they could have). They went straight to the nuclear bombs. It's so unfair. I should not be dealing with this mouth allergy that I never ever had before.

I'm sad to say I'm looking forward to a period of adjustment with my mouth. This oral hypersensitivity is no fun. I've been in so much pain because of the very bad decisions Dentists made I now can't brush my teeth with toothpaste :(
-which is a big, HUGE deal to me, I just hate having my mouth feeling dirty-
 
Gordon

Gordon

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Toothpaste doesn't actually clean your teeth, it just makes the process pleasant enough that you'll carry on brushing long enough to actually clean them. Seriously, it doesn't contribute anything useful other than a nice taste :) Oh and some fluoride :)
 
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dentistafraid

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So will clean water do the trick? I'm using clean water and flossers (the kind that looks like a hook with the thread in the middle). So far I've been managing and my symptoms have gone down pretty significantly (Although I have an ulcer here and there, it has been less intense).

thank you for replying!
 
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Mona65

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I have the same rashes on the mouth twice but i think is from bacteria from my bad teeth and then they go away without treatment but i had it maybe for a month.
 
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dentistafraid

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@Mona65 after the anti fungal treatment, they started to come back less intense and less painful. I still think I have fungus (because of the rashes outside the mouth, that's typical candidiasis). I don't think I have bacteria because the antivirals never did anything. But the anti fungals did. In my case, my teeth are ok. After the broken tooth was taken care off I could eat again (this is why it's a bummer I have this thing going on. It's an endless nightmare). I'm dealing with fungus or something that's causing me the slight burn and rash (clindamycin nuked my inmune sistem). I will be getting a swab on thursday because fungus makes your mouth super sensitive to almost anything (like toothpaste). Let's see how that goes. Thank you for your input!
 
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Mona65

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Dont worry! I have candidas(proved with test) in my mouth multiple times after sickness and antibiotics. Sometimes they resolved without treatment but sometimes they give me a very painful sores.
 
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dentistafraid

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I had gut candidiasis in 2014 (tested, also) and it was one of the worst experiences I've had in my life. That is why the fungus diagnosis made a lot of sense after the antibiotics round. But I never had any on my mouth (didn't know this could happen!!). Since I only had soreness, pain and almost little of the white stuff, the doctors said I was on my way out. and now I have rash outside my mouth :( really, I can't wait for this nightmare to be over.
 
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Mona65

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I guess good probiotics and lots of yogurt will help improve your gut flora. I didn't even suspect that I could have them in my stomach, because I read that you could have bloating from them, and when I had these disgusting things in my mouth, my stomach also swelled a lot (terribly much). One of the reasons is the birth control pills that I have been taking for many years and after I stopped them, the problem disappeared. I haven't even thought about it. I hope your condition get better soon. Vitamin b complex also stop my bloating i know this drug is good to take it while you taking antibiotics.I take clindamycin several times and i dont have any problem with this drug(thankfully).
 
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dentistafraid

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Right now, stopping the toothpaste had a great impact on my mouth. I already take probiotics, I just think (and this my theory), Clindamycin knocked off my gut flora and downsized my inmune system (this and the very heavy stress I was experiencing due to mal praxis). The fungus made my mouth more sensitive to spicy foods, toothpaste etc and I kept on using and eating all of this until my body could handle it no more (hence the rash outside my mouth, which has, since I stopped using toothpaste, almost vanished). Like @MountainMama said, the ulcers and rash on the inner lip are coming back less aggressively every time they appear. They are less painful as well (my inner lip used to be chafed and red in the rim with rash and ulcers. Now it is pink again with just one ulcer or two. Almost back to normal. it doesn't bother me as much). Of course I still think I have fungus on the mouth but I also believe it is slowly going away. My throat is still irritated and red, but I guess as Mountain Mama pointed out, it'll take some months for everything to go away. I am taking probiotics every day (and I took them while I was on the antibiotics round. It's just when you had candidiasis on the gut, your system is already extremely fragile and sensitive.Clindamycin was a nuclear bomb!) and added just yesterday Vitamin B12 and Fish oil to boost my inmune system.
Thank you for the kind words.
 
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