Dentist Stopped Half Way

[joanvoe]

Hi, I just needed to talk to people who might have experienced the same as me in the hope that they might have some words of help, or just a shake by the scruff of the neck. I've been to the dentist this afternoon. He was lovely, but read on.

I will try not to ramble on. Here is my problem.

I have Ehlers Danlos which is a connective tissue disorder. All my joints dislocate or sublux (ie slip and slide) very easily and it happens every day. My jaw joint is currently having a really bad spell and the little disc in the joint itself keeps coming out and getting stuck, which means I can't shut my mouth. I was born with it.

It means also that I cannot open my jaw wide at all. I have quite a small mouth in anycase, plus I can't open it due to the above, and also I accept that some of it may be that I am scared to do it. Either way, I can't open my mouth much.

Also, my teeth are incredibly sensitive. Also, dental anaesthetics like lignocaine or whatever they use now, don't work very well with people who have what I have.

Also, I tend to bleed and bruise badly. It's par for the course for my condition.

I have a bad tooth which has to come out, as it's past help due to me not going unless I really have to go. The dentist today was really brilliant, he's young, and he's very much on the ball and I explained about my condition and my fear, and he was great and did heaps of research, and even rang me with his plan of action.

Anyway he said he would give me valium so I went early and had the tablets, 10mg altogether. The valium didn't have the remotest effect on me whatsoever. He gave me heaps of injections so I definitely went numb, but then when he started rocking the tooth he had trouble becasue my jaw was moving around instead of the tooth. So he got me to hold my jaw in place (the nurse was going to do it but I wanted to do it myself) but then because I was unable to open my mouth wide enough and hold it still at the same time, he ended up not being able to get any instruments in there and in the end we had to call it a day.

He was really sweet and very upset that he'd not been able to do it, and didn't try to blame me at all, but said he'd be better to do it under general anaesthetic in hospital and promised to be very gentle. I said ok, because I just wanted to get out of there. My husband was there too and he's quite cross with me because he said I should have just pulled myself together. Maybe he's right. I don't know. He says once they have me under anaesthetic they will open it really wide then I will have trouble for ages. I just don't know what to do. I have gone totally to pieces now. I have antibiotics because he thinks the infection might really flare up now that he's interfered with it all, and the tooth will probably ache where he's rocked it.

I feel so depressed and panicky now, I am so scared and each time I go to a dentist it just seems to reinforce my fear. I don't know what to do. Another dentist in town uses Hypnovel but does anyone have any thoughts about whether that might be better than valium, or might it also not work seeing that the valium didn't?

Sorry to go on about this, but I'm hoping someone has a magic wand.

Thanks, Joan

 

[vicki]

Hi Joan

Well done for going to the dentist - it must be twice as hard when you're worried about your jaw dislocating as well as going for dental appointments . There will be an answer for you though - and you've come to the right place to try and find it . Everyone on here has different fears and problems so you're not alone.

What is it that scares you about your jaw problems when you're at the dentist? Is it because of possible pain or because your jaw might dislocate? Perhaps your GP might be able to suggest something as I know that sometimes people who are prone to joints dislocating are taught how to put the joint back into place.

It means also that I cannot open my jaw wide at all. I have quite a small mouth in anycase, plus I can't open it due to the above, and also I accept that some of it may be that I am scared to do it. Either way, I can't open my mouth much.

It can't be a nice thing to happen, but perhaps if you had more control over things and were able to do something to ease it, then you might begin to feel less scared about it. Afterall, a problem can't continue to be a problem if you've found a solution.

When people have a medical condition, they can sometimes feel like they haven't got control over things because it's something that happens and has an impact on their life whether they like it or not (I should know - I've got a couple of conditions myself which can seriously mess up my life at times). But no matter how much you worry about something happening, it won't stop it happening if it's going to happen anyway. Unfortunately it's taken me years to realise this but it's true. What you can do though, is focus on finding ways to minimise the problems so that when they happen, they're less of a problem (and less of a worry). Maybe some sort of relaxation type therapy might help as well e.g. meditation or hypnosis?

It's good that you were able to get properly numbed - that's half the battle for some people. It also sounds like you've got an understanding dentist who's keen to sort things out for you .

Anyway he said he would give me valium so I went early and had the tablets, 10mg altogether. The valium didn't have the remotest effect on me whatsoever.

Sometimes when people are scared, they can produce enough adrenaline to counteract the effects of the drug - this has happened to me a couple of times . I've had enough medication to knock a cart horse out when I've had tests/procedures done in hospital but yet the drugs have had no effect because I've been so stressed and scared.

Just because it's happened once, it doesn't mean that it will always will though . You tried your best and that's what matters.

My husband was there too and he's quite cross with me because he said I should have just pulled myself together. Maybe he's right. I don't know. He says once they have me under anaesthetic they will open it really wide then I will have trouble for ages.

It can be hard for others to understand when they're not in the same situation. In a round about kind of way, your husband was probably trying to help. He might also feel a bit lost as to what to say perhaps?

They will be able to open your mouth wider if you've had a general anaesthetic as your muscles will be totally relaxed and this obviously will make things a lot easier for them to sort your tooth out. You don't know that you definitely will have problems afterwards though - but even if you do, you'll be able to get through it .

I feel so depressed and panicky now, I am so scared and each time I go to a dentist it just seems to reinforce my fear. I don't know what to do. Another dentist in town uses Hypnovel but does anyone have any thoughts about whether that might be better than valium, or might it also not work seeing that the valium didn't?

Perhaps breaking things down into more manageable chunks might help you to deal with some of the fear? It's no wonder that you're feeling overwhelmed by it all, a lot of people would be because if something seems too big, we think we can't cope with it.

Try not to feel bad about not being able to open your mouth wide enough, as long as you do the best you can, nobody can ask any more . Perhaps if there are other treatment options you can explore, things might improve a bit.

Hypnovel is the brand name for Midazolam which is an intravenous drug. It works in a different way to oral sedation such as Valium and is a lot more powerful. For more information on IV sedation see:

IV Sedation

Find out all about IV dental sedation: what does it feel like, is it safe, and how do the sedation drugs midazolam and remimazolam differ?

www.dentalfearcentral.org

Sorry to go on about this, but I'm hoping someone has a magic wand.

I wish I did (I could give up my day job and make a fortune! Seriously though, feel free to ask any questions or just post if you need advice/support - that's what this place is here for.

Welcome and thanks for joining!

 

[letsconnect]

Hi Joan ,

I'm not familiar with your condition. But Gordon (our resident dentist) works with people with other medical conditions a lot and he might have some tips. Would you like us to move this thread to the "Dentistry Questions" section? I'm not 100% from reading your post if your fear is mostly due to the effects of Ehlers Danlos, or if you generally have a dental phobia and your condition is only a complicating factor?

Many thanks for joining and - well done for having made it this far

 

[freakout]

Hi & While I can not relate to the Ehlers Danlos that you have, I can relate with the jaw joint problems and not being able to open your mouth very wide. I suffered a severe jaw joint disorder problem for 10 years, in which most of the time I could not open my mouth at all, and when I could it was very minimal. After many, many operations, I finally was able to open my mouth normally. I finally went to a dentist, who told me any time I had dental work, I would had a 99% chance of causing the disorder to come back and need more surgery. It was at that point that I opted to avoid the dentist and avoided them for over 10 years.

A couple of years ago I had an accident breaking all of my top teeth and found a caring dentist who is taking my treatment nice and slow and being extra careful not to cause too much stress on my joints.

Typically when the jaw joint comes out, it causes the muscle to go into spasm, making opening your mouth very difficult. By having general anethesia, those muscle will be relaxed so that you will have full opening. I had to general many times, just so the oral surgeon could work on moving my jaw.

Giving your husband the benefit of the doubt, I am sure he is trying to be supportive. He (as with all loved ones) probably finds it very hard to see you go through something he could have done with just local anesthetic. Unfortunately if you have not endured jaw joint problems, you can not fully understand the problems & pain that it can cause.

I think "Lets" was correct, you should have your thread posted under the dentistry question area. Gordon can give you much more information regarding general anesthesia vs. iv sedation, as it pertains to your medical condition.

Please keep us posted.

 

[joanvoe]

HI Vicki

Thank you so much for your welcome. I felt a bit better when I actually got some replies, which was a nice surprise. I am finding my way round this about how to do it, so please forgive me in advance if I don't do it right. I am in Australia by the way, so I think I may be on a different time to other people, not sure.

>What is it that scares you about your jaw problems when you're at the dentist? Is it because of possible pain or because your jaw might dislocate? Perhaps your GP might be able to suggest something as I know that sometimes people who are prone to joints dislocating are taught how to put the joint back into place.>

It's both. I have been hurt so many times in the chair due to dentists not understanding what effect Ehlers Danlos has on dentistry and how much my tissues are so fragile compared with most other people. I also have a fear of not being able to stop the bleeding, which has been a problem quite often in the past and I've been carted off to hospital so many times for uncontrollable bleeding from nosebleeds etc. I think the phobia part of this whole thing comes from when I had my tonsils out aged 5, (52 years ago!!) and they were unable to stop the bleeding and I remember waking up back in the theatre where they were pumping my stomach out and I remember fighting against them all, then seeing it all whooshing out (sorry) which terrified me of having tubes etc in my mouth ever since. I am also scared of the dislocations, but the trouble is that my collagen is so stretchy that if it dislocates badly, it doesn't just do it once, it carries on doing it for weeks or months later. I have learnt how to put my joints back, but never my jaw as it tends to happen at night when I am most relaxed.

>Unfortunately it's taken me years to realise this but it's true. What you can do though, is focus on finding ways to minimise the problems so that when they happen, they're less of a problem (and less of a worry). Maybe some sort of relaxation type therapy might help as well e.g. meditation or hypnosis?>

Yes, I have thought that, but it's quite hard to get anything like that where I live, ie in a country town in Australia. It doesn't seem to exist here.

>It's good that you were able to get properly numbed - that's half the battle for some people. It also sounds like you've got an understanding dentist who's keen to sort things out for you .>

It has been for me before too. He was really wonderful. I felt so embarrassed about it and so sorry for him because he's such a nice man and I really felt I could trust him. The surprising thing is that I do still feel I can trust him, even after what happened yesterday, because I feel it was my fault for getting so totally out of control.

>It can be hard for others to understand when they're not in the same situation. In a round about kind of way, your husband was probably trying to help. He might also feel a bit lost as to what to say perhaps? >

>Hypnovel is the brand name for Midazolam which is an intravenous drug. It works in a different way to oral sedation such as Valium and is a lot more powerful. For more information on IV sedation see:>

Thank you very much for that, I am going to ask him when he rings me later today (it's just after 5am here in Australia) about it. There is another dentist in town who does use it, but I really would like to stick with this man if I can because he was so nice.

Thank you so much, I really am grateful. I feel such a wimp. I have a high pain threshold for everything else, I'm just not like this normally, I've had six children without so much as a murmur, so I can't understand this. I'm not normally like this at all, I'm a writer and speaker and I can't understand what happens at the dentist.

 

[joanvoe]

Hello

>I'm not familiar with your condition. But Gordon (our resident dentist) works with people with other medical conditions a lot and he might have some tips. Would you like us to move this thread to the "Dentistry Questions" section? I'm not 100% from reading your post if your fear is mostly due to the effects of Ehlers Danlos, or if you generally have a dental phobia and your condition is only a complicating factor?>

Thank you, that sounds like a good idea.

My fear is definitely mostly due to Ehlers Danlos effects, because the effects of it are so little known by most dentists.

I'd be grateful if he had anything to offer. Thank you in advance.

 

[joanvoe]

Hello

Thank you very much for your help.

>Typically when the jaw joint comes out, it causes the muscle to go into spasm, making opening your mouth very difficult. By having general anethesia, those muscle will be relaxed so that you will have full opening. I had to general many times, just so the oral surgeon could work on moving my jaw.>

I think this is going to be the only way for me too really, it would be the same dentist who actually did it, just that I would be asleep. So at least he knows the problems I suppose.

>Giving your husband the benefit of the doubt, I am sure he is trying to be supportive. He (as with all loved ones) probably finds it very hard to see you go through something he could have done with just local anesthetic. Unfortunately if you have not endured jaw joint problems, you can not fully understand the problems & pain that it can cause.>

Yes, he was trying to be supportive and do what is best, though as you say - unless you know what it's like having dislocating jaw problems, (like not eating solid food for weeks because chewing dislocates it!) it's really hard to understand.

>I think "Lets" was correct, you should have your thread posted under the dentistry question area. Gordon can give you much more information regarding general anesthesia vs. iv sedation, as it pertains to your medical condition.>

Yes, I think it's a good idea. Thank you so much for your advice and help.

 

[melodyl]

Hi Joanvoe:

Welcome :

You have endured so much in your life!!! I commend you for going to the dentist and I do hope that everything works out.

You're a mom of 6. Wow, you are amazing!!!!!

I wish you well.

Please come back and tell us how you are doing!!

Regards, From Brooklyn, NY in the USA.

 

[Andria]

Hi, just wanted to say .

Everyone here is really friendly and helpful, it's good to share your problems and get good advice in return and also reading other peoples stories you'll realise your not alone.

You've been through a lot, but sounds like you've found a good dentist, who wants to help. If you feel comfortable, relaxed and happy with him, then don't swap to someone else. I'm sure the two of you will conquor this together.

I want to wish you the best of luck, and keep us informed of how your doing.

Take care
x

 

[joanvoe]

Hello

>Everyone here is really friendly and helpful, it's good to share your problems and get good advice in return and also reading other peoples stories you'll realise your not alone>

I can't tell you how much better I feel about all this in my own mind. Certainly better informed.

I had a call from my dentist this morning who must be a saint I think. Anyway we talked again, and his advice (which I am going to follow) is that I do go ahead and have general in the hospital. He has spoken to a surgeon about the whole issue, and he agreed that the most important thing is to get the tooth out without dislocating my jaw. It was verging on the 'more than I need to know' stuff but he was trying to explain to me so I felt I owed it to him to listen... once I am 'under' he is going to cut the tooth in half and remove some bone from the side, just enough to get each half out without exerting too much pressure. He explained it better than that actually, and I have decided to go with that as I do trust him, odd though that may seem after what has happened. The first appointment is on 18 October, so I have to get through till then. It's very painful (presumably bruised) but also the infection has flared up as he warned me it might so I'm a bit uncomfortable but I do feel so much better having everyone's support.

Joan

 

[Andria]

I think it's really great for you that you are so comfortable with your dentist. I think you trust him so much because, he's sympathetic to your condition and will do his best to help you, without causing you too much pain, I'm sure many other dentists would have tried once and then referred you on to someone else.

I'm sure with the help and support of your friends here, you'll manage to get through the waiting time till your next appointment. Also I'd like to wish you good luck with that.

Take care
x

 

[melodyl]

wow, your dentist sounds like a very cool guy!!!!

He will take good care of you, don't worry about that.

All the best,

Melody

 

[vicki]

I am finding my way round this about how to do it, so please forgive me in advance if I don't do it right. I am in Australia by the way, so I think I may be on a different time to other people, not sure.

Don't worry about it, you're doing fine . If it helps, even though I'm now an admin, I still haven't figured out what half of the buttons do either, so you're in good company!

For some reason, from your first post I thought you were British (it was your spelling of anaesthetic - the US spelling doesn't have a second 'a'). Time zone wise, I think you're about 12 or 13 hours ahead of the UK, depending on whereabouts you are in Australia. We do have a few posters from the land of sunshine and barbies on here from time to time and it's nice to have you here ! As I'm sure you've seen, there are people from all over the world here and we're all a friendly bunch.

I have been hurt so many times in the chair due to dentists not understanding what effect Ehlers Danlos has on dentistry and how much my tissues are so fragile compared with most other people. I also have a fear of not being able to stop the bleeding,

It's not surprising that you're nervous at the dentists if you've been hurt several times before - that's how the fear starts for many people. From what you've said, it sounds like your dentist wants to be as informed as he can about the effects of the Ehlers Danlos so hopefully that might make things easier for you in the long term.

Does he know about your fear of the bleeding not stopping? If it's likely to cause a problem, it might be worth having a chat with your doctor to see if there's something that can be done if you're going to have a procedure where a little bleeding may be likely. I've got a platelet disorder which means that my blood doesn't really clot if the count is too low. If I need anything doing then usually it means I need a short course of medication to sort it out. If you're more informed about all your options and treatment, it might make it seem more manageable for you because it puts you more in control .

I think the phobia part of this whole thing comes from when I had my tonsils out aged 5, (52 years ago!!) and they were unable to stop the bleeding and I remember waking up back in the theatre where they were pumping my stomach out and I remember fighting against them all, then seeing it all whooshing out (sorry) which terrified me of having tubes etc in my mouth ever since.

That sounds similar to the experience I had when I had my adenoids out at the age of about 6 (21 years ago !). It was scary because they didn't tell me what was happening or what to expect. It was horrible and I ended up having a blood transfusion because I'd lost so much blood. But if they'd told me that in fact some bleeding was completely normal after that type of surgery then I would have been a lot less worried. They knew that there was a chance I'd need a transfusion due to the blood disorder so they were well prepared and everything was under control. Of course it didn't appear like that to me which is why I was pretty terrified.

Things have changed a lot in the last few decades though. Doctors and dentists are generally a lot more aware of keeping patients informed about things because the fear of the unknown or unexpected can be a lot worse than the actual event - after all, if you knew what was going to happen, you'd be more in control.

Your dentist will only know what you're scared about if you tell him so it's important that you let him know what's worrying you. It doesn't matter what it is, I'm sure he will have heard it before and it's better off that it's out in the open - it's one more thing off your mind .

Yes, I have thought that, but it's quite hard to get anything like that where I live, ie in a country town in Australia. It doesn't seem to exist here.

Are you able to get things delivered from the internet? There are some good self help books from places like Amazon that would give you a good starting point and there are plenty to choose from. Also, make time for yourself to do something just for you - whatever it is that you find relaxing or enjoyable. Make it a regular thing - sometimes we get so caught up doing things for others that we often forget ourselves.

I felt so embarrassed about it and so sorry for him because he's such a nice man and I really felt I could trust him. The surprising thing is that I do still feel I can trust him, even after what happened yesterday, because I feel it was my fault for getting so totally out of control.

It's good that you trust your dentist . There's no need to feel embarrassed though - I bet he's seen hundreds of nervous patients before so it's not a problem. You tried your best and although you weren't able to have the tooth removed at that appointment, it is going to be sorted out for you so it's going to be OK. Maybe when you start to feel more confident going to the dentist, things might improve.

I feel such a wimp. I have a high pain threshold for everything else, I'm just not like this normally, I've had six children without so much as a murmur, so I can't understand this. I'm not normally like this at all, I'm a writer and speaker and I can't understand what happens at the dentist.

You're not a wimp, you've just had some bad experiences . People react differently in different situations. For a long time I couldn't understand why I was 'like this' either. It confused me because I'm the exact opposite normally - I sometimes give talks at the local university to hundreds of students in a lecture theatre (not many like public speaking - including me! ), or I can be meeting clients and discussing what to do with their millions of pounds worth of budget. That's not the type of thing a terrified person would do though is it?

Fear of 'the dentist' or going to the dentists affects all sorts of people from all walks of life for so many different reasons. A person's fear is just as individual as they are and so really there is no such thing as a typical 'dental phobic'.

You've come to the right place though - there are people here with different experiences that they can share with you. As long as you take things a bit at a time and at a pace you can handle, you will get there .

Good luck with your appointment - let us know how it goes  

(Oops - just realised I've written another long post again ! Long posts seem to be my speciality! )

 

[joanvoe]

Hi

Just letting everyone know the latest, I hope you will all think of me. Sorry to be so demanding on here. I slept badly and woke up with what must be a pretty bad abscess. It was so bad I rang the dentist and he asked me to go straight in. He took one look and rang the hospital. I have to go in at lunchtime today for a general anaesthetic to get it out and drain the abscess. I just feel like I am in shock - it seems every time I go to the dentist I end up being more scared than I was the previous time. Sorry, I'm just not a happy bunny today.

Joan

 

[letsconnect]

I don't know if you'll get this in time (with the time difference etc.), but all the best for today !!

Please let us know how you're doing once you've recovered!

 

[Nat]

Hi Joan, I wanted to wish you all the luck in the world today, Hopefully things will go great and you will be out of pain soon

 

[Andria]

Hi,

I hope it went well for you. Wish you a speedy recovery.

Take
care
x