Terrified and need advice please

[Lady Quicksilver]

Please bear with me as I don't really know where to start and am not very pc literate but hope to find my way back here if anyone can help me.
I am from the UK and had implants placed over 18 months ago with a view to having implant supported overdentures top and bottom. My teeth were in a dreadful state because of my dental phobia, resulting in neglect over the years but I gathered all my reserves to proceed. From the beginning, after my first surgery, I had doubts about my dentist's competentcy.... I had complications but when I said such and such does not feel right, he said that hasn't happened before or will so and so happen he said it shouldn't....but then it did. I had no clear explanations of what was happening, only dismissive replies. I had my top implants done first and, to be fair, I was delighted with my temporary denture as I could smile at last without embarrassement. I had my lower jaw done 3 months later when at the same time he replaced an implant in my upper jaw. When I asked later why it was replaced ( it seemed to protrude at an odd angle ) he said because it had failed. There were no clinical signs of infection nor was it loose. More complications in my lower jaw could only be addressed by further surgey for which I explicitly did not give my consent but he was insistent and i sat terrified and squirming while he worked, without me being sedated this time . He later acknowledged he was not fully aware of my phobia....really?? That was the first thing we discussed. Abject fear kept me returning for further appointments as I thought if I appeased him he would not hurt me again. My full set of temporary dentures did not fit properly and I could not eat well resulting in weight loss. He had another set made which were little better and resulted in flattening my gum. Every time I complained of the pain he said temporary dentures are never satisfactory and your final restoration will take the pressure off the gum. The final straw was when he burnt me in 3 areas whilst taking an impression and when i told him, offered a curt sorry about that.
I have been totally traumatised and having counselling and medication to help me cope.
The senior partner agreed to complete the work after I made a formal complaint to the practice...which has never been acknowledged by the practice manager as he wanted to sort it "in house" which meant with dentist number 1's indemnity provider. Dentist number 2 started the final stages but then stopped as there was no movement with dentist number 1's insurers. A month later I finally managed to get him to continue the work but that was in July and it's now October! Now he says I can only have prominent teeth! Why? Because of an implant. I asked if it was poorly placed and he said no, it's in the bone! The top overdenture was lately sent back to the lab because he was not happy with the midline which is to be adjusted but now it does not match the lowers. Do I really have to accept these?
I live in a small community but was fortunate to get a second opinion. This dentist assumed I had had the work done abroad and said no dentist here would get away with that work, that the implants were old....he had stopped using them in 2002..... and poorly placed and some were already compromised as they were 3-4 threads above the bone.
I'm scared to accept these restorations, scared not to, scared to see another dentist...just scared of everything. Do I keep these ill fitting temporaries ( 18 months i have had them ) and suck food for the rest of my life? I would really appreciate any adivice.
Thanks for letting me ramble, I'm just so scared and lost.

 

[MountainMama]

I am so sorry you are going through this. How traumatizing!

I am in the U.S., so I don't know how things work in the UK, but if it were me, I would ask the 2nd opinion dentist to write a letter explaining everything he told you, and take it to someone higher up (comissioning board?). I would try to get the work redone by the 2nd dentist. Did you have to pay a lot for the work? If so, I would petition to get it reimbursed or at least have the new work covered.

Not dental, but my father had a hip replacement done due to a congenital defect in his late 50's. The doctor removed too much bone and he was in agony and his hip kept popping out. He went to a different doctor who said it was shoddy work and wrote a letter saying exactly what was done wrong. He did not sue, but went to the board of directors at the hospital where the work was done and showed them the letter. They paid for a new surgery by the doctor of his choice.

You shouldn't have to live with the mistakes that dentist made. I hope you can get it worked out.

 

[Gordon]

I really hate to say this, but I think it's time to get some legal assistance.

You're basically being messed around here and need to get them to pull their collective fingers out and get you referred for expert assistance. There are some specialist legal firms who deal with dental issues. Google is your friend.

A lawyer's letter to the practice will get things moving. Good luck.

 

[Lady Quicksilver]

Hi MountainMama,
Thank you so much for your reply. I had intended to get a written report from the dentist who gave me a second opinion but am too frightened to see him again. Any tips? He was so good to me and down to earth and explained everything he found wrong, even asking if his partner could examine me and she concured with his findings. I was so relieved to have my doubts validated that I just sat and cried. He was reassuring and said he could help me but I failed to ask for a written report. He advised me to let dentist 2 finish the work and get back to him if I needed to, Bless him, he didn't even charge me for the consultation or xray. But how do I actually drag myself back to him? The cost was £13,000 but when I made the complaints...particularly the one of surgery without consent.....I was asked if I was looking for compensation. We agreed dentist number 2 would complete the work with no further cost to me. ( there was £5,000 outstanding ) However, I feel he is covering your boy's back and being obstructive... he refused to give me the chrome cobalt i have paid for, says acrylic will suit me better, says I will have buck teeth to accommodate an implant and they look awful. 3 months later and I'm still no closer to having something in my mouth which is functional. I intend to get legal advice to recover the cost of repairs but don't know if I can face more surgery. Not feeling too strong at the moment, feel I am talking like a jibbering idiot instead of the stong, confident woman I used to be. I really appreciate your imput and will try to use your kind words to keep me focused. Bless you.
I'm sorry your dad had similar problems and glad he got it sorted...wishing him continued good health. X

 

[Lady Quicksilver]

Hello Gordon, I really appreciate your reply. Could I ask you why you are reluctant to advise going down the legal route? I understand to do so can be stressful for both parties concerned but am of the opinion that he should not be practising with impunity. He is accountable for his actions and I feel he is in breach of his code of conduct and I realise the allegation of doing surgery without my consent is a serious matter.

As I said before, because I live in a small community, dentists here are reluctant to give second opinions although I was furtunate to find one who did but whether he will be willing to give me a written report is debateable. I know I'm wimping it here but I am so scared to go back to him to ask.

Also it has been difficult to find legal representation, most have said we can't help you.

I have been in touch with the Dental Complaints Service who, when I had explained the situation, said they were obliged, because of the seriousness of the complaint, to refer it to the GDC and closed the case. The GDC wanted me to to give full details but at the time I did not comply as I was negotiating with dentist 2 to finish the work and feared he would not do so if I proceeded. The GDC went ahead without my imput but closed the case as they did not have enough grounds to act. I'm not sure I want to go down this route as dentist 1 has probably worked hard to get where he is and has a young family.

The ideal scenario would be to get a written report and cost to resore my mouth and teeth from dentist 3, take it to dentist 1 and ask for a full refund and any additional costs involved in repairing the damage, though I'm not sure if I can face more surgery. But job done if he agrees. To negotiate this, I would like to do so without spitting my teeth across the table at him.....smiles weakly.

The only other option is if dentist 1 does not agree to a full refund, I take the report to the only solicitor I have found who has agreed to take the case on. Existing on sloppy food for the forseeable future is soul destroying.

Your thoughts on this would be invaluable and thank you for taking time to reply to me.

 

[MountainMama]

I can understand not wanting to go back in. Would you be able to call and request it in writing. He would have taken notes on your visit. Or is there an email address?

I hope you get it sorted out. I know you don't want another surgery, but maybe work something out in steps, that isn't so terrifying. Let us know how it goes!

 

[Lady Quicksilver]

Oh my goodness, so logical!! I'm in such a tizz I didn't see the obvious, thank you. Will ring and ask for a written report and perhaps collect it myself! Sounding very brave now

 

[Gordon]

Mainly because lawyering up will put the practice even more on the defensive and probably won't speed up the conclusion you're looking for. I agree that both dentists are skating on very thin ice professionally and am somewhat surprised at the GDC's actions, but you unfortunately rather shot yourself in the foot with them by not complying with their request.

I think that your plan is a good one, if you can find a dentist who will undertake the remedial work then go back to the practice with the bill.
However, remedial treatment of implant therapy is not cheap and really needs an experienced practitioner, I'm not sure you'll find somebody like that in a small rural community?

Hello Gordon, I really appreciate your reply. Could I ask you why you are reluctant to advise going down the legal route? I understand to do so can be stressful for both parties concerned but am of the opinion that he should not be practising with impunity. He is accountable for his actions and I feel he is in breach of his code of conduct and I realise the allegation of doing surgery without my consent is a serious matter.

As I said before, because I live in a small community, dentists here are reluctant to give second opinions although I was furtunate to find one who did but whether he will be willing to give me a written report is debateable. I know I'm wimping it here but I am so scared to go back to him to ask.

Also it has been difficult to find legal representation, most have said we can't help you.

I have been in touch with the Dental Complaints Service who, when I had explained the situation, said they were obliged, because of the seriousness of the complaint, to refer it to the GDC and closed the case. The GDC wanted me to to give full details but at the time I did not comply as I was negotiating with dentist 2 to finish the work and feared he would not do so if I proceeded. The GDC went ahead without my imput but closed the case as they did not have enough grounds to act. I'm not sure I want to go down this route as dentist 1 has probably worked hard to get where he is and has a young family.

The ideal scenario would be to get a written report and cost to resore my mouth and teeth from dentist 3, take it to dentist 1 and ask for a full refund and any additional costs involved in repairing the damage, though I'm not sure if I can face more surgery. But job done if he agrees. To negotiate this, I would like to do so without spitting my teeth across the table at him.....smiles weakly.

The only other option is if dentist 1 does not agree to a full refund, I take the report to the only solicitor I have found who has agreed to take the case on. Existing on sloppy food for the forseeable future is soul destroying.

Your thoughts on this would be invaluable and thank you for taking time to reply to me.

 

[Lady Quicksilver]

Thank you once again for your reply. I'm not sure that I have burned my bridges with the GDC as I explained to them at the time why I couldn't risk ailienating dentist2 as he led me to believe we were nearly finished...last 2 extractions and definitive restoration made. The impressions had already been done for this and the bars made. However the GDC said because of the nature of the complaints they would investigate but if they felt they didn't have enough information, they would close the case but that I could re-open it at a later date. They were very clear about this.

Dentist2 agreed to complete the work with no further cost to me (there was over £5,000 outstanding ) in lieu of my compensation claim and said dentist 1 would bear the remaining cost of treatment. Great. He did the extractions then said he had taken legal advice and couldn't proceed as my contract was with number 1. It took over a month to make him see that he was in breach of contract as we had a new contract for the remaining work and that he was not responsible for previous work done. But he has messed me around for 4 months to date with delayed lab work, unsatisfactory fittings and rudeness. He even told me, when my gum bled during one fitting, that my skin would toughen up in time and i would get used to it!

However i just want it all over and done with with the least possible stress. I will take the report to dentist1 and ask for a full refund and and the cost to cover the remidial work and hope he agrees to this without having to resort to legal redress.

I have been very fortunate to find that dentist 3 is a very experienced implantologist and has said although it would be a complex case, he would welcome the challenge.

Thank you for listening.

 

[Lady Quicksilver]

Just a wee update. Last saturday I got my final restorations which look quite good, gives good facial support and are funcionally superior to my temporary dentures thought my teeth are prominent due to a poorly positioned implant. However after every meal I have a lunchbox of food below both overdentures. Dentist 3 examined me again and gave a damnining report on what he found. Impants are subprime..the lower left is 3mm above the bone..already compromised..they are older implants which he stopped using in 2002, the upper left central implant is positioned too far forward making restoration with a bar type overdenture difficult. The upper bar looks like it does not fit and has been "adapted" on the left implant using a coarse cutting bur This needs replaced with an accurate fit. There is no chrome cobalt framework which creates strength and rigidity and allows freedom in the palate. The midline is not correct and does not match the columella of your lip.
Retured to dentist 2 today because of the lunchbox effect and he added micro beads to seal the denture.

Dentist 3 said I was totally justified in asking for a total refund and what I have been left with is indefensible. For Gordon's information, dentist 3 has been involved with implantology since 1991 and has sat on the committe of the Association of Dental Implantology for 7 years during which time he was involved in the training and mentoring of many dentists. Your thoughts on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Gordon]

Is dentist 3 prepared to put all this in writing or has already done so?

You need to figure out how much it's going to cost to sort everything out and then go see a lawyer. I can't see any other way forward.

 

[Lady Quicksilver]

Thank you for your reply. Dentist 3 has indeed put this in writing, my last post quoted his words and I have an appointment later today with dentist 1 to show him the report and see if he is willng to make restitution. I also have a quote in writing for the remidial work needed.
Would much prefer to settle this aimicably if possible before taking legal action.

 

[Gordon]

Dentist 1 would need to involve his defence organisation, one hopes that they already have!

They will then review the case and offer to settle on his behalf. It's not likely you'll get an immediate response from the dentist, they need to let their insurers deal with it.

 

[Lady Quicksilver]

Further update...showed dentist1 the report on thursday, he tried feebly to defend parts of it then said he would speak to dentist2 as to the way forward...i said the best way forward for me was to ask for a full refund and to have the remedial work done elsewhere to which he replied that was not unreasonable but he would have to speak to dentist2 to authorise it. OK.

Spoke to dentist 2 yesterday who is now offering a "superior" premier fixed bridge. I asked if he had spoken to d1 and he said no as he has gone, in his words, "awlol, I don't know where he is and I can't contact him" He hadn't seen the report so I showed him and he said it was harsh and that the opinions are subjective.

We spoke about d1 and he said "but he would say he didn't do whatever or he explained that" etc and when I said that should all be in his notes then, he agreed and pointed out d1 kept comprehensive notes. Can I have a copy please...oh yes. Oh dear!!! What a shambles, how misleading with downright untruths. D2;s recent notes were unbelievable. He stressed the amount of time he had spent with me and, I quote " d2 is really finding it difficult to manage this case but as duty of care will finish as planned. D2 is 100% sure that she will never be satisfied with anything he can provide. He will however never leave her disadvantaged and as stated from the original deal, finish the case." I understood notes should be factual and surely his opinion is subjective?!!

So one says a refund is not unreasonable, the other is flogging a dead horse and blaming me for killing it and i am totally confused. Am I missing something here? Thanks for letting me rant, becomming increasingly frustrated and angry.

 

[Gordon]

This is why dentists find themselves up before the GDC... a prompt apology, a refund and some good wishes would have sorted this out for both dentists here. It's very silly.

 

[Lady Quicksilver]

Just a wee update. Emails have been flying back and forward between myself and dentist 2. He's basically blaming me, dentist 1 and dentist 3 for the situation and insisting I continue treatment with him... in my best interests. When I pressed him on why he tried to restore my dentition on poorly placed implants and a bar which did not fit passively and had been "adapted" he replied, for 2 reasons...1, because the bar was already made and 2 because I agreed for him to finish the work! Is this a competent clinician? His replies became even more bizzar and deluded so I said to labour our difference at this stage would only be an academic exercise but that they might be resolved in a higher forum if neccessary. To which he offered a guarantee of cam cam ? bars, less prominence of the teeth and chrome cobalt horseshoe shaped overdentures ( these were specified in my treatment plans but which he had initially refused to give me because acrylic would suit me better! ) ... the first attempted upper restoration (made in high impact acrylic ), was horseshoe but he decided to send it back for adjustment of the midline, however, it came back with full pallet cover and one tooth almost in line with my midline!!! Indeed, he told me it would never be possible to give me what I had paid for but here he offers a panacea. Needless to say, I informed him that as he was "100% sure "she" would never be satisfied with anything he could offer", that it did not bode well for me to continue with him as I had lost confidence in him and my request for a full refund still stood. I gave hin 10 working days to reply but that time is up and nothing from him.
Meanwhile dentist 3 has begun the remedial work but unfortunately the implant which was compromised has failed and actually fell out!!! The 2 outer implants in my upper jaw are still taking the stress of the butchered bar and I fear loosing those also although I am carefully eating soft foods. Now I am being refered to an oral surgeon for leukoplakia.... hopefully from an ill fitting denture.
Any advice and support would be gratefully appreciated as I don't know how much more I can tolerate or how to proceed now my 10 day deadline has expired. Do I take legal action first or let the GDC investigate as he seems to have fallen short of most of the standards required of him. Thank you.

 

[jatay1985]

I just read your whole thread and I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I think you’ve given him and D1 AMPLE time to correct their wrongs and I would be going to the law now. You’ve got to get justice for what they’ve both done to you. They’ve had too much time to make things better and D1 is seriously having a case of malpractice

 

[grumpybear]

It's time to take legal action.

 

[Lady Quicksilver]

Just a wee update, dentist 3 has been working on my new upper overdenture....lower cannot be done yet as I have to wait to have another implant to replace the one that fell out. I have consulted a solicitor who has requested a report from dentist3 who unfortunately says he cannot provide one as there is a conflict of interest now I'm his patient. He has recommended a dentist who may give a second opinion but as I have lost the compromised implant, how can it be accurate? Dizzy running round in circles. I'm attaching photos of my previous temporary denture which was supposed to be replicated as my permanent one but hey ho, dentist 2 left me looking this goofy. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Lady Quicksilver]

Paid thousands of pounds to look like this!